Barry Mcguigans Top 3 Mexicans !!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010.


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  1. Axl_Nose

    Axl_Nose Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Im a British fight fan, and over here the former feather-weight world champion Barry Mcguigan writes a newspaper column every Saturday on whats happening in the world of Boxing .. In yesterdays column he was talking about the comeback of Erik Morales and how he is just another fighter who cant accept that he is finished, he then went on to list who he thinks are the top 3 best Mexican fighters in history, heres Mcguigans list,

    1. Chavez
    2, Barrera
    3. Morales

    Now i usually respect Mcguigans views, he's not an ex-fighter that talks endless **** like Lennox Lewis or George Foreman, but i think his top 3 Mexicans is absolutely wrong, I simply dont believe Barrera or Morales deserve to be there, however exciting their respective careers were and just to be clear Erik Morales along with Holyfield are my 2 favourite fighters of the last 20 years ....

    Lets look at some of the Mexican fighters in history and debate a true top 3,

    Baby Arizmendi
    Kid Azteca
    Carlos Zarate
    Lupe Pintor
    Salvador Sanchez
    Ruben Olivares
    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Marco Antonio Barrera
    Erik Morales
    Ricardo Lopez
    Juan Manuel Marquez
    Vicente Saldivar
    Jose Napoles (Cuban or Mexican ??)

    To pick out 3 guys from this list is pretty tough and very subjective, so i'd like your individual views on this .. Does Julio Cesar Chavez automatically deserve the number 1 spot on every list ?? Im looking at this list and im finding it so difficult but as its my thread im compelled to give my top 3, so here it is ..

    1. Julio Cesar Chavez
    2. Carlos Zarate
    3. Ruben Olivares

    But then again, Salvador Sanchez and Ricardo Lopez are absolutely sensational too .. Anyway whats pretty clear to me is that i totally disagree with Barry Mcguigan, Barrera and Morales dont even make my top 5 Mexicans .. They moved up weights but unlike Zarate and Pintor they didnt run into an opponent like Wilfredo Gomez .... This is a very difficult choice that involves razor thin margins .. I'd be very interested to see some of your opinions on who belongs at the top table in the Mexican Pantheon of True Greats .... Im thinking a lot of people will question me having Zarate at 2 but for me, he was absolute poetry at his best ..
     
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    #1
  2. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Why is Carlos Zarate most deserving than Barrera and Morales in your mind, Axl?
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #2
  3. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Top 3
    Chavez
    Sanchez
    Lopez

    And Olivares is a real close 4th, followed by Barrera,Morales,Zarate,Marquez,Saldivar,Arizmendi.
     
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    #3
  4. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    1. Julio Cesar Chavez
    2. Ruben Olivares
    3. Salvador Sanchez

    4. Vicente Saldivar
    5. Marco Antonio Barrera
    6. Erik Morales

    7. Miguel Canto
    8. Carlos Zarate
    9. Kid Azteca

    0. Ricardo Lopez
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #4
  5. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :patsch:patsch Oh yeah i forgot about Canto. Hey Addie whats up with putting Saldivar above your boy Barrera? I like Barrera HTH and i like his resume better, looks better on film too. My new list since i forgot about Canto.
    1.Julio Cesar Chavez
    2.Salvador Sanchez
    3.Ricardo Lopez
    4.Ruben Olivares
    5.Marco A Barrera
    6.Erik Morales
    7.Carlos Zarate
    8.Juan M Marquez
    9.Miguel Canto
    10.Vicente Saldivar
    Honorable mention Baby Arizmendi,KId Azteca
     
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    #5
  6. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    I think Barrera and Saldivar are interchangeable.

    Barrera was successful at multiple weights at a time when it was easier to do, and Saldivar was more consistent at his peak. Both fighters fought great fighters and won more often than not. Morales, Hamed, and Mckinney for Barrera or Winstone, Laguna, and Famechon for Saldivar. Both look great on film, both good combination punchers, great body punchers.

    I favor Barrera H2H because I think he's slightly more mobile and has the quicker hands, on top of his physical advantages in height.

    Marquez above Saldivar? No way. Almost as unforgivable as having Salma above Noni.
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #6
  7. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Saldivar's record is totally stacked despite the relative brevity of his career.I think he arguably has the best record of any mexican fighter, as far as the amount of excellent fighters on it is concerned.

    Best record is between him and Olivares from those names posted imo.

    Marquez and Lopez the worst.
     
    lora, Mar 28, 2010
    lora, Mar 28, 2010
    #7
  8. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Tell me about Winstone, Laguna, and Famechon. If you would.

    Who is that in your avatar?
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #8
  9. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think that is Hilario Zapata in his avi.

    Oh and Addie Winstone and Famechon were very good fighters not great. You want to say they were great but yet the other day you said MarqueZ wasnt? Marquez was definitely better than those 2.
     
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    anarci, Mar 28, 2010
    #9
  10. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    It is indeed. I can't believe I didn't recognize him...
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #10
  11. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    All three were excellent technical boxers, with among the best jabs of all-time at feather and lightweight.You can add in cuban great Jose Legra as well...the pocket cassius clay.

    Can't be bothered to post more just now, but if you want to check out a few easily available good performances, watch the first Laguna vs Ortiz fight and Winstone vs Guerrero and Baby Luis on youtube.Sweet_scientist put up a Famechon highlight as well, it's a good effort and will let you get an idea of him, though he's not really a highlight reel kind of fighter imo.

    Problem for a lot of them was becuase it wasn't as easy to jump in weight(and junior light wasn't that highly regarded) and pick up a title, so it was tough to get much done if they couldn't beat Saldivar.Ramos had to fight Ortiz, and Winstone was faded after his trilogy with Vicente.Famechon could have done more, but retired in protest right in his prime, after losing the close decision to a past prime comebacking Saldivar.
     
    lora, Mar 28, 2010
    lora, Mar 28, 2010
    #11
  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Sanchez outside the top3 is criminal
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 28, 2010
    PowerPuncher, Mar 28, 2010
    #12
  13. Axl_Nose

    Axl_Nose Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Zarate is a personal opinion, he was absolutely unbeatable at Bantam, he got screwed against Pintor in the worst decision ive ever seen .. That decision is often forgotten but for me, it was a decision that makes Whitaker v Chavez look fair .. Zarate stepped up to Super Bantam and got done by Gomez, but Gomez was a sensational fighter .. Zarate at 2 is only my opinion, i personally think he was a better all round fighter than either Morales or Barerra, i also think Ricardo Lopez is a better fighter than Morales or Barerra .. Like ive said, at this level its about fine margins, if you think Morales and Barerra are ahead of Zarate and Lopez thats fine .. I appreciate opinions, im interested in different views .. Nobody is 100% right or 100% wrong. Barerra against Mckinney and Morales against Pacquiao 1 are 2 of my favourite fights but i still think Zarate at his best was of a higher class than both of them ..
     
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    #13
  14. Axl_Nose

    Axl_Nose Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How the hell do you have Ricardo Lopez at 10, that must be an anti low weight bias .. Lopez was a master technician, an artist, he was absolutely brilliant .. Zarate at 8 ?? Cmon man, Zarate at Bantam was as close to perfection as you will ever get ..

    Lopez was a better fighter than Barerra or Morales, not as 'marquee' but definitely a better fighter in my opinion ..
     
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    Axl_Nose, Mar 28, 2010
    #14
  15. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Who beat better fighters, Barrera or Lopez?

    Who had more success at higher weights, Barrera or Lopez?

    Who had more variety to their skill set, Barrera or Lopez?

    Who won more world titles, Barrera or Lopez?
     
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    Addie, Mar 28, 2010
    #15
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