Battle of the HW swarmers: Marciano, Tua, Tyson, Frazier

I strongly disagree here.

Yes Willard had been inactive as indeed Dempsey had going into the Tunney fight but there was still a lot left. He still had one of the best heavyweight chins of all time and a superheavyweight punch. He also went on to beat Floyd Johnson who was a noted contender of the period.

Willard was basicaly out on his feet after that left hook that caved in the front of his face and that is partly why he was inefective at defending himself.

If you look at this fight with the speed of the film slowed down Willard actualy looks a lot better than in the usual versions and displays a lot more subtlties.

He honestly dosnt look much worse than Vitally Klitschko in the Peter fight!!!!!!!!!!

The number of heavyweights throughout history who could have replicated this performance could be counted on the fingers of one hand not including the thumb.

 

I didn't say Tua was all luck. He had great power and what made it special was it stayed throughout the fight.

But there's a HUGE difference in finishing Oleg Maskaev late when way back and being able to catch guys like Marciano, Frazier, or Tyson. Against the top level he struggled and Tyson, Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey etc. are simply steps above anyone Tua beat.

 

Tyson didn't fight anyone of real significance after prison outside of Holyfield, Golota, and Bruno.

I doubt Tyson was afraid of Mercer, the fight never had to be made and Tyson didn't take boxing as serious at that stage.

 

I think those are some significant names. Throw Lewis in the mix who you forgot, and who else was there?

 

I used those names because that's who he fought in the 90s. 2002 was an entirely different era and Tyson was pretty far gone at that stage (although he still had power and chin)

A Tyson-Mercer or Tyson-Tua fight would of been a fight where the risk outweighed the reward. You don't take those fights if you don't have to, and the fights never had to be made.

 

Tua would come out just like he did against Moorer... Marciano and Frazier would have no choice but to fight him and both would be crushed early ... too much size and the worst possible match up ... again, there are reasons there are weight divisions ... How would Terry McGovern have done against Pipino Cuevas ? the prime Tyson would be another matter but I don't see him taking Tua out early so it becomes a bout of attrition that could go either eay ... Mike never showed the biggest heart ... He is more talented ...

 

Mental breakdown are when you do things to get out of fights. like trying to break peoples arms, and biting peoples ears off. It's doing things to get out of fights. You're telling me Tyson never did that?

 

You don't have to be a champion to be able to beat a champion. There are lots of fighters who could beat a prime Tyson. Tyson has always had some dog in him. Guys like Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, Frank Bruno, they reached his chin. No, they didn't knock him out or pose a great threat, but they hurt him.
The key to beating Tyson is to outlast him. He was always a bully. Once he doesn't have that bully factor, he's just another good fighter. He's not a ****ing immortal.
Guy like prime Ali, Holmes and Foreman probably would have beaten him. Undoubtedly, several other ATG's stood a good chance of beating him.
I believe Tyson would have mentally broken down and either get tko'd, quit or get himself disqualified against Tyson. I'm not saying this because I thing Tua is a great fighter. I'm saying this because of Tyson's mental makeup. Tua would have hit and hurt Tyson. Tua would take Tyson's punches and kept coming. This would have discouraged Tyson and caused self-doubt. He would have panicked and done something stupid.

 

At 230 Tua was in terrific shape for his body type.

Janitor, are you saying you like McGovern over Cuevas ?

Dempsey's title winning victory over Willard was always blown out of proportion to me ... Willard wasnever great, highly inactive and old ...

 

When did he do that against Douglas/Ruddock/Green/Smith/Tucker/Tillis

Tyson was even more insane after prison and that isn't the Tyson we're talking about.

 

Agreed. You're also forgetting Ribalta, which I find to be one of Tyson's most underrated performances. He had energy and knockout power for a full 10 rounds, against a fighter that actually fought back and didn't try to just survive, like most of his other decision wins.

Post-prison Tyson was a very unstable person. Tyson is an insecure personality, who doesn't have the inner resolve to push himself on his own. He was a follower (or perhaps underdeveloped/childish is a nicer way to put it). He always needed someone to take a leadership role with him. Once that role was void, he relied on talent alone, and dissipated.

 

My opinion:

Marciano 3-0

Tyson 2-1

Frazier 1-2

Tua 0-3

 

not really, he was always kind of hefty.