Battling Jim Johnson vs Jack Johnson Revisited

"Which should he choose?"

Depends if his grail is money or legacy.

But such choices should and do affect his historical standing.

 

What if he chose both money and legacy by accepting challenges from McVey,Jeannette, and Langford but the fights did not happen because of circumstances beyond his control?

If you had gotten your start in Battle Royals,then been used as a mobile punching bag by such as Gardner, Sharkey. Been forced to fight when you hadn't had a square meal for days,as was the case against Klondike,
If you had been the best fighter in your division outside the champion for a number of years and did not get your title shot until you were 30years old,and only received £1.200 for it .Would you not be entitled to wring every dollar out of it you could? Johnson would have laughed at the mention of a holy grail,he was for Jack Johnson,first, second and last,and who could blame him nobody else was!

 

CBZ states he was 5' 8".lol

 

I don't know the point you are trying to make. I am not condemning Johnson. Only pointing out that not fighting your best contenders undercuts the legacy of a champion. The bottom line is he could have fought Langford, if he cut his fee and put legacy first. He didn't have to and didn't. That is part of the reality on which he is judged. After all, Langford faced racism also. The implication of your argument is that racism justified Johnson denying shots to other black men.

 

Let me be clear I dislike you , I don't like your pathetic , Pavlovian compulsion to dump on Johnson at every opportunity,I don't like the fact that he is the raison de etre for you being here after being banned for similar vitriolic escapades ,and I regret getting you reinstated here after you were banned with your very first post under this new alt a post in which you immediately attacked Johnson.

In short I want nothing to do with you,as far as I am concerned you are a hating moron.I enjoy debating with the other posters on this subject,but after I've been conversing with you,I feel slightly soiled and in need of a shower.

So snipe away to your hearts content at both Johnson and myself . ICGAF and ,If he were alive I'm sure he would smile his golden smile at you as he did to all the other haters.

Now you can have as many last words as you want . BYE

 

He could have cut his fee and fought Langford ,
but,why should he have ?
The implication of my argument is White America wanted Johnson off the crown of Heavyweight Champion of the world and was prepared to pay any likely vanilla challenger and Johnson himself good money for the chance of that happening. Hence the White Hope Era and its more than an implication it's the stone cold truth!
Individuals will judge Johnson as they may,just as they will Dempsey,how much fault you or anyone else finds in them both not facing their most dangerous challengers is entirely up to them,and is no concern of mine.

 

"any likely vanilla challenger"

And what does this have to do with Sam Langford?

What you are saying is that Johnson played along with the racists for his own gain and threw his fellow black men who were his legit challengers under the bus.

 

You mentioned the racial prejudice,I answered it.
Johnson played along with nobody, when it came to picking a mate he told White America to go **** themselves,that he would choose whom he slept with ,not them.
You are insinuating that Johnson played the amiable darky for financial gain and that is just rubbish!
No Black man of his era ever refused to kow tow to white America more than Johnson did.
Johnson never walked in the **** Walk Langford did.

Name a single statement Jeannette ,whose wife was White, ever made in support of his fellow blacks?
Johnson gave a lecture to an audience of KKK and campaigned for black politicians and white ones sympathetic to their position.
When Johnson fought Jeffries both Langford and Jeanette were loud and prominent in declaring Jeffries would beat the snot out of Johnson.

Neither of them had a good word for him ,he owed them nothing!

Throw them under a bus! lol .
If either of them had beaten Burns for the title instead of Jack, do you see them hastening to defend against Johnson in a show of Black solidarity? LOL

Johnson had McVey live with him and his wife,and paid for his funeral , he mentored George Kid Cotton,and George Godfrey.
Johnson was great friends with Joe Walcott , Joe Gans ,and McVey,and boosted them publicly many times, aside from that what did he owe any black person?
Please don't attempt tell me what I am saying ,I think I'm the best judge of my views and opinion.

 

Motive? What would the motive be? You seem to be accusing posters who disagree with you of having an agenda. It’s a bizarre yet noticeable pattern.

The history books largely agree Johnson drew the color line as champion with one exception, a cherry pick gone wrong with the weakest link of all black contenders. The rest of them proclaimed it as well.

 

My take is a champion in any sport is about more than just money. It is about being the best in competition. Being champion means beating the best competition.

It is not my place to judge Jack Johnson as a man.

As a champion, he did not defend against his best contenders.

Of Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford, it is said "neither had a good word for Johnson"--Perhaps we should ask why was this so?

Joe Jeannette-----"Jack forgot about his old friends after he became champion and drew the color line against his own people."

Sam Langford-----"Jack Johnson never gave me a rematch because he knew, and I knew, I would win."

Jack Johnson-----"nobody will pay to see two black men fight for the title."

"The Black press condemned Johnson for prioritizing money over racial solidarity."

"What did he owe any black person?"

A shot at his title. Was there a moral question involved for black people concerning the color line?

 

I'm kind of caught in the middle here. But at the time Jim Johnson was the highest ranked HW Johnson hadn't beaten. Now theres a lot more to it and thats an excuse but at face value Jack could say he was fighting his top outstanding black HW contender. That was technically true.

 

Then why did Jack accept a mere $1,000 to fight Battling Jim when he demanded $30k from everyone else. He had turned down a $20k offer from Jeannette so he could fight Battling Jim for $1,000.