Beating Kessler doesn't make Calzaghe an ATG!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Caliboxing, Nov 22, 2007.


  1. Caliboxing

    Caliboxing Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,203
    4,556
    Sep 28, 2007
    Calzaghe can be an ATG but isn't yet. I would like to see him beat a few more fighters before I call him an ATG. The biggest name I see on Kessler's record is Mundine who is a good fighter but not great. The only other fighters I recognize are Lucas, Beyer and Andrade who are far from great. The rest of the fighters are average and most of us haven't even heard of them. Since I expected Calzaghe to beat Kessler long before they fought, I don't consider it such a great accomplishment.
     
  2. psychopath

    psychopath D' "X" Factor Full Member

    26,390
    2
    Mar 13, 2007
    It is a great exciting fight because Kesller is a real threat but that victory is not enough to propell him to ATG status yet.

    Got to fight some big established names and beat them.
     
  3. Jose FM

    Jose FM Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,612
    1
    Apr 29, 2007
    DAMMIT im glad someone is ****in telling the truth round here!
     
  4. inchpunch

    inchpunch Active Member Full Member

    518
    3
    Oct 15, 2007
    His career as a whole does make him an ATG. Something that boxing fans overdo is to consider only wins over other ATG's as an accomplishment. To be unbeaten without a single questionable win is remarkable - how many ATG's have accomplished that?? Many fighters who are considered ATG's had dubious decisions in their favor or even losses against huge underdogs. Louis against Schmeling. Prime Ali struggled with the nobody Jones. Holyfield struggled against various lesser opponents and has some gift decisions in his record. Lennox Lewis lost twice to huge underdogs (I consider Lewis ATG Nr. 3 in HW) and ended his career with a dubious win. Calzaghe's fights never left a doubt as to who the better fighter was. Kessler was in his prime, in shape and is obviously a complete and dangerous fighter. In so many cases people discuss the meaning of a win because someone is past their prime or slightly out of shape. Kessler was at his absolute best, which counts at least as much as his career accomplishments.
     
  5. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,633
    55
    May 4, 2007
    Of course he's already an ATG -- people underestimate how good Kessler was. A win over him means much more than outclassing Hopkins, Wright or Woods would mean at this point.
     
  6. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,217
    12
    Sep 21, 2006
    People are taling as though that was Calzaghe's debut!

    What inchpunch said is correct.
     
  7. t-worm

    t-worm oldbie Full Member

    250
    0
    Apr 6, 2007
    Hi All,
    Who would Joe need to fight to make him an ATG in your view?
     
  8. Koa

    Koa Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,380
    3
    Sep 24, 2004
    He's basically a foot in for ATG status imo. But, he should fight Hopkins in a woulda shoulda coulda match. If he defeats Hop soundly, he deserves tons of respect. If he wins a close decision, or loses, then we need to rethink things. I think beating B-Hop should be the benchmark, even at this point of B-Hops career.
     
  9. sjc

    sjc Active Member Full Member

    1,235
    1
    Jun 18, 2006
    ATG already for myself and many others. But for the doubters...

    I see 5 'choices'

    Pavlik (If he wants to move up, which I doubt, and I don't blame him)

    Dawson

    Woods

    Jones (If he beats Trinidad well)

    Hopkins (If he grows a pair)

    For me, any of these wins for Joe could be explained away all too easily and therefore do little to enhance his legacy.

    Pavlik - was overrated. Who had he beaten other than a weight drained and crude Miranda and 'No Bad Intentions' Taylor.

    Dawson - was too green and yeah, we overrated him I guess.

    Woods - Ha! that British bum already got DOMINATED by RJJ remember?

    Jones - Ok he beat Trinidad, but come on, we all knew he was pretty much shot.

    Hopkins - Maybe he should have bought his zimmerframe to the ring and tried beating Joe with that instead.

    .... Joe's legacy was secured a few weeks ago, and I hope (and think) that Kessler will pummel the SM division for the next few years to highlight this.

    I wouldn't mind if he retires now. But I wont begrudge him chasing the mega buck fight before he does, he's earned it.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,636
    47,329
    Mar 21, 2007
    Two big fights against proven fighters would do it for me. What's been proven is that he has the type of quality that makes him comparable to the greatest fighters.
     
  11. Koa

    Koa Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,380
    3
    Sep 24, 2004
    Meh, yeah. I expect him to beat guys like Hop, and Roy Jones at this point. Beating Jones at this point in his career really says nothing. Beating B-Hop, and schooling him, not pulling some Jermain Taylor gift on a close scorecard victory should seal his legacy. Yeah, Calzaghe was able to outbox a big, strong determined well schooled boxer puncher. But, can he defeat a savvy, well schooled junkyard dog who has the reputation of Hopkins?

    I want to see Joe fight different types of great fighters to see where he really stands. Like, how do you compare Joe to Hopkins at this point of their careers? Well, Hopkins took on all sorts of different elite competition in his career, while Joe took on very good competition and one elite level fighter. While I think very highly of Calzaghe, I still feel he needs to take on another elite fighter. One huge win in an undefeated career is an underachievement imo.
     
  12. sjc

    sjc Active Member Full Member

    1,235
    1
    Jun 18, 2006
    Eubank was far from shot
     
  13. t-worm

    t-worm oldbie Full Member

    250
    0
    Apr 6, 2007
    Thanks for the replies guys, B hop seems to be the man Joe wants. I am not holding my breath though.
     
  14. Strike

    Strike Boxing Addict banned

    3,982
    0
    Sep 14, 2004
    It is quite simple no matter who Calzaghe fights the American fans who are bias (not the level headed ones) will dismiss it.
    I am seeing Pavlik and Hopkins mentioned and even Dawson. Dawson? Well sorry but Kessler has beaten more recognised names than Dawson...so just as with the Lacy fight and the Kessler fight where numerous people predicted Calzaghe to lose by KO this is how the predictions and reactions to a Calzaghe win would pan out on ESB home of the moron....

    Dawson - will win by KO, a proper American fighter unlike anyone Calslappy has dared face.

    Then Calzaghe wins - Huh Dawson was green, typical Calzaghe fighting someone who is not the finished article rather than a real US champ like Hopkins, Calzaghe is a joke.

    Pavlik - Kelly by murder, Joe cant hurt him, Joe is too small and Pavlik hits WAY harder than Lacy, Kessler, Reid, Eubank etc.....

    Then Calzaghe wins - Pathetic from Joe, ducks real competition at his weight and makes a fight with a middle weight, this proves nothing, what a fraud, who is next Joe Diaz???

    Hopkins
    - Calzaghe has no chance, for once in his pathetic Euro Bum career he is facing a proper champion a real great and he will be exposed as the fraud he is when Hopkins takes him to school and then takes him down. This is going to be embarrassing.

    Then Calzaghe wins - sickening move from Joe Calzaghe, there are young hungry fighters who would DESTROY him like Dawson and Pavlik, but what does he do? He fights a shot, way past it, almost dead old man. No surprise here he has never faced anyone at that peak other than frauds like Kessler and Lacy, everyone knew he would not have the balls to get whipped by Kelly and Chad.



    And so on......
     
  15. rusticraver

    rusticraver Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,563
    0
    Nov 4, 2007
    Err world champ for 10 years, ducked by every top american fighter for years. 21(?) defences... Beat Eubank at a young age. Never even had a close fight since then.. Beat a prime strong opponent at 35... Totally individual style.. incredible punch volume... took the absolute **** out of the "new tyson" for 12 rounds..

    Can't believe he still isnt rated as what he is.. one of the best fighters in last 20 years