I would certainly consider Mathis for top 5, but I've never actually seen it. Plus, I would have to say that Jack Bodell and Joe Alexander are probably worthy of a top 5 slot, except that they are less famous, although no less impressive.
May I bud in? I couldn't find the odds, but I believe Joe was a slight favorite in '69, and a slightly bigger favorite in '74.
Thanks William bud away, I’m not sure where I saw it but someone claimed Jerry was favored in their 2nd fight based on the belief that Joe was shot.
NIGHTTRAIN I'D HEARD AT THE TIME HE WAS 6-5 Favorite in 1974, yet it was more like 6-5 pick em lay 6 to win 5 either way. i have a clipping day of the fight newspaper was even up.
Do you recall what JERRY had to say afterward? I reallly had the impression they shared a strong mutual respect.
yes they did and a long history (not bossom buddies earlier) but i think the bad words if any, was to hype up the gate, I do KNOW for a fact like 1966 Joe knocked on Jerry and Kathy's apartment , and told Jerry , "hey man lets both stay undefeated so we can make some big bucks". (Frazier vs Quarry) Jerry was unconsolable after the second fight, he stated he thought he was getting there for the World title, and still maybe would have got the shot, had common sense stayed away from Joe Frazier, he also did not want anybody saying bad word for Frazier. Who showed alot of class towards Jerry in the victory. I'd also heard from a very reliable source (Jerry's son) that Quarry and his second wife flew to philadelphia, and stayed with the Fraziers, and played music after Jerry had retired in 1975
Frazier 12-5 6/23/69 Quarry 6-5 6/17/74 (even at fite time). Bodell and Middleton were also big Quarry wins WW, The people who are not really that up on boxing (sportswriters, certain commentaters) will call they inexperienced Joe Alexander, not so, Joe made a career out of sparring everyday with the big boys as many many fighter's do, have a picture of him training /sparring with Dundee fighters Rufus Brassell AND one Muhammad Ali, getting them both ready for Jerry Quarry in 1970. the guy knew everything About Quarry. The so called experts see Alexander and his 8-3 record, and hey this guy's inexperienced, when in reality, he learned from the best. Alexander's skills were obvious in his bout with Quarry. he also had a hard time getting fights.
I believe Jerry was the favorite in the second fight, as the word, at that time was Joe was shot. "The word" has it completely backwards, as Joe looked the best he had been since the first Ali fight, and Jerry was the one who looked shot. Quarry came in a at a good weight of 197, yet he had no muscle definition and had no pop on his punches. Jerry had looked like crap in KOing Joe Alexander in a tune up. After getting dropped heavily, Jerry beat the stuffing out of Alexander, but he looked very sloppy in doing so. Why Clancy and Quarry decided to fight Frazier a second time doesn't make a lot of sense.
Funny, now people say that Quarry was washed up going into the1974 Frazier fight. But this is why I find current-at-the-time-of-fight rankings as well as pre-fight odds so interesting. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy. Foresight is interesting; trying to predict the future based on what we know about the recent past. In boxing, they say that you're only as good as your last fight. It's not true, but it's what fans typically gravitate toward. See the current perceptions of Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury. The fact that Quarry was a slight favorite going into Frazier II might seem odd to some people. But you have to look at a bigger picture. In 1972 Quarry beat former contender Eduardo Corletti and current top-10 Larry Middleton before losing to an at-the-top-of-his-game Muhammad Ali. In 1973 Quarry went 5-0 (4), beating Randy Neumann, undefeated Ron Lyle, and very dangerous Earnie Shavers. A month prior to Frazier II, Joe Alexander decked him in round one and Quarry came storming back and kayoed him in round two. So Jerry was 8-1 (6) from 1972 up to Frazier II. Heck, he was 4-0 in 1971, too, including a first round KO over top-10 ranked European, Commonwealth, and British champion Jack Bodell. So Quarry was 12-1 (7) going back to the beginning of 1971, losing only to Ali and beating four top-10 contenders (Bodell, Middleton, Lyle, and Shavers). Contrast that with Frazier. Only one fight in 1971, albeit the spectacular FOTC. 2-0 (2) in 1972, but against top-15 (not top-10) Terry Daniels and unranked Ron Stander. In 1973, Quarry's golden year, Frazier was blasted out by George Foreman and decisioned top-10 Joe Bugner, going 1-1 (0). Then in 1974 Joe lost the rematch to Ali. So, going back to 1971 Frazier was 4-2 (2), beating two top-10 contenders (Ali and Bugner) and losing to Ali and Foreman. Discounting the FOTC, which many observers thought ruined Frazier, his standing going into Quarry II was shaky. So, going in, we can see why Quarry was a slight favorite. If he would have won we'd be saying that it was Frazier who was washed up. That said, Frazier was still ranked #2 and Quarry #3. Of course, the two things Frazier had going for him was his previous victory over Quarry and his much better showings against Ali. And maybe a third: he was Joe Frazier.
Very very good post, could not have broke it down better myself, The fight game at the time, Quarry was coming (again) and Frazier was supposedly going after they Foreman & the Ali loss in MSG. To me just made "Smokin Joe" more dangerous. Ironically I was playing Baseball that summer '74 . my uncle who was not very adept to the fight game , Was at one of the ballparks, and told me between innings "well your boy is gonna get his shot!" So later I high tailed it home to catch the sports news, Excited Quarry would get the Title shot vs Foreman- Only to have a huge letdown MY UNCLE HAD MISTAKED FRAZIER FOR FOREMAN. I knew then Quarry needed a Frazier fight, like eskimo's needed ICE! A TITLE FIGHT would have made $$six times the cash Quarry was paid for Frazier. AND WHAT IF HE'D PULLED LIKE A LYLE type upset, And was able to get in that kind of shape.? Beating the big intimadating slugger was Quarry's fortee
The trainer and owner of Jimmy's Corner Bar,Jimmy Glenn who has just succumbed to Corona Virus was a big Quarry fan ,he told me Jerry was underated.
The I agree he was underrated, but also inconsistent.It seemed like you never knew which jury you were going to get. I think this could be attributed in large part of the fact that you often fight with injuries due to poor management.
The Eddie Machen fight took place on July 14 1966, Jerry was learning the ropes, no disgrace, Eddie was a very experienced pro, he did have some difficulty with Floyd Patterson, but Jerry won both meetings. The Ken Norton fight was in 1975, Jerry was at the end of his career, no credit taken from Ken Norton, who won fair and square that night, but it would have been more competitive had Quarry was near his respective prime.
I think this had a lot more to do with where Jerry was at than Norton being better fighter. It is my understanding that Jerry handled Norton consistently when had sparred during his peak.
