Benny Leonard. - A true legend of the sport.

A trio, of the greatest
Jack Dempsey
Benny Leonard
Harry Houdini

 

I usually have him ranked 9 or 10 all time.

Truly, amazing and special in every sense of the word.

 

Manny Seamon, Bens trainer said "By the time of the last Dundee fight Ben knew he was passing his peak"

I find that a very fascinating comment from an insider. I do believe the year would be 1920!

 

True,what you say. Many writers of Leonard's time claimed that Benny Leonard was so good,he could name the round he could score a kayo, but to get matches,he would have to carry loads of fighters. He was to the lightweights what the later Ray Robinson was to the welterweights. But Ray had one advantage over Leonard. Robinson at nearly 6ft, was bigger than almost all his opponents,height and reach,whilst the 5ft.5"Leonard
had no such advantages physically over his contenders. Leonard was champion for 7 years ,beating the best array of lightweight contenders.
One for the ages...

 

So do I.... He's in my Top 5 ATG's along with Joe Gans,,,,,, I also have Pep in there.

 

Underrated? I have him top 10 LB4LB. He was a freak of nature, absolutely a born boxer. His reflexes and judgement of distance, and anticipation of his opponent are phenomenal. It's as though he could see 3 seconds into the future at all times.

 

I think the main diffrance between Leonard and Robinson is that Leonard was a more tactial boxer, while Robinson used his size and athletic ability, along with incredable power. I would say that Leonard is the greatest "boxer" and Robinson the greatest "fighter" in terms of what they could do in a boxing ring. I prefer boxers over fighters. Not that Robinson was incapable of boxing, but based on what I have seen Robinson was more of a fighter.
What sets Leonard who I have at #1 all time from Robinson #4. Is that because he was a "boxer" with his skill set. I can't see anyone beating Leonard 5'5" 69" at lightweight this includes very talented bigger lightweights such as Ike Williams 5′ 9″ 68", Shane Mosley 5′ 8½″ 71" and Floyd Mayweather Jr 5′ 8″ 72". I know this will be regarded as blasphmy around here. However I can't say the same thing about Robinson 5′ 11″ 72½″ at welterweight. I would not heastate to pick Thomas Hearns 6′ 1″ 78″ and Sugar Ray Leonard 5′ 10″ 74″ over Robinson. To be fair Hearns and Ray Leonard are both very skilled boxers who are both bigger than Robinson.

 

I know Benny is better H2H, but i just want to know if he had more raw power than Mosley at lightweight, or more punching ability alone?

 

Beautiful movement, his use of range, movement, defence and lead right is quite similar to Mayweather's

It's a real pity there isn't more footage of his available

I'm not sure if that's true, was he as good at combinations as Robinson? Was his left hook as good? His counter punching? He is defensively better than Robinson, better at setting up counters too

Was his movement/footwork/defence better than Pep's? I'd say no again.

Agree with the first part. As for H2H, I think he probably outmoves Williams, Mayweather is a bigger/faster version of himself so I can't see him winning that. Mosley I wouldn't class as a LW, he used 24hour rehydration to come into the ring at 155, he'd have never fought as a LW in Leonard's day (Mayweather doesn't gain much weight though so he would), different times

 

RC, Benny Leonard was a trip-hammer puncher with both hands. He was so feared and respected by his opponents and managers, Leonard ,to get rematches,as he fought often, "carried" many opponents. He knocked out Rocky Kansas ,the lightweight LaMotta of his time with one punch. My dad would see him train,and the other boxers and trainers would STOP to watch him spar. He played chessmaster in the ring...
I differ strongly with your assertion that Ray Leonard or Tommy Hearns would beat the prime Welterweight Ray Robinson,that I saw at his zenith playing around with his idol Henry Armstrong,or flatten other guys in the early 1940s. Robinson then, was lightning in a bottle,awe inspiring.He was
unbeatable as a WW then,and it is a shame no films survives of THAT Robinson I saw. He flattened TWICE,a forgotten today George Sugar Costner,TWICE in one round,who was a helluva fighter those days. Cheers.

 

Yes that makes sense, especially since PP just said Mosley was 155lbs in the ring at "Lightweight".