Benny Leonard and Modern Technique

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by roughdiamond, Feb 16, 2019.



  1. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    Hey guys,

    I just got done finishing the Benny Leonard VS Lew Tendler bout recommended to me on YouTube, and I have to say I was mighty impressed with Leonard.

    I thought the way Leonard controlled the pace of the bout, and his sense of distance along with his intelligence, was extraordinary. However, he still had 'unfavourable' habits, such as low hands, in comparison to the modern day technicians we see.

    However, I don't think it is ridiculous to say Leonard could beat any lightweight today, and that footage is from 1922! And Tendler wasn't a slouch, either (to say the least).

    What do you guys think of Leonard's boxing ability, and how it compares to the modern day?



     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    When you have great footwork and reflexes, you can get away with low hands.

    Benny Leonard is impressive. One go the top 3 ATG's at lightweight. And he's really the 1st champion to break the color line multiple times.
     
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    I think there's a case to have him at 1, but Lightweight is so stacked, I also think there's a good case to have him down a bit. Joe Gans, Packey McFarland, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, and Floyd Mayweather Jr. are very tough competition.
     
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  4. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Does anyone know who Ray Arcel rated higher Leonard or Duran?
     
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  5. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    I think I remember reading that arcel couldn't really separate them, but that Bennys mental energy was greater then anyone, and that he could 'name the round' with anyone he fought. I'll try find the source.
     
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  6. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    My mistake, this is the quote from arcel:

    'And pound for pound, who was better, Robinson or Benny Leonard? I hesitate to say either one, but Leonard's mental energy surpassed anyone else's.'
     
  7. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Linares who threw better combo`s against Loma than Leonard did here, but Leonard`s active guard was awesome with the use of feints with his jab.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    Getting the lead foot outside isn't always a flaw or priority.

    Watch again. Notice how Leonard keeps his front foot pointed towards the middle of Tendlers body, the middle of his stance. This is holding the centre line, and allows Leonard to see all incoming punches and present a decieiving target to Tendler. If you stood in front of Leonard, you would think he is leaning forward, when really his weight is predisposed to his back leg and promotes movement, which also allows him to keep hands low, and means punches have to travel further to reach him.

    If watch in slower speed, you can see Leonard land several jabs etc. Due to this. Tendler also nvver manages to get a real outside angle and catch Leonard clean, due to his positioning. His positioning is ideal, whilst Tendlers, at times, isn't.

    Also watch how Leonard expertly controls Tendlers head and swivels him around in order to retain his position in center ring, and stay away from the ropes.

    Theres a lot more to this, but it'd take forever to write.
     
  9. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    Also, Linares is not on Tendlers level.
     
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  10. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The controlling of his opponents head on the inside leading then on to the rear handed uppercut was a fighting skill Duran used also and using his own arm to hook on to an opponents lead arm to contro them the m on the inside was also something that was taught to Duran by Arcel, two brilliantly trained fighters by a master trainer.
     
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  11. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That is relatively new, it began with the dingbat notion that the only way to beat a southpaw is with the straight right. For many years the way to fight a southpaw was to move to your right- get your foot inside of his lead foot- to make him throw his straight left so you can counter it with your left hook. If you do this, his right hand is behind you, he has no angle to land legal punches, so you have isolated his left hand while you can punch with both hands. Even your jab.

    As to the hands low style...if you are out of range it doesn't matter. If you understand range and position, and have good feet, you can fight with your hands behind your back. I am far from impressed with the modern concept of putting your hands over your face and hoping he decides to punch your gloves instead of around them.
     
  12. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    Exactly this @mark ant
     
  13. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thanks, I`ve heard differing views on this subject and sen studies showing how getting the foot on the outside on a southpaw works sometimes but respected youtubers have also said it doesn`t matter that much.
     
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  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Blue Valentine Full Member

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    Honestly a lot depends on the fighter individually.
     
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  15. Unnecessarily Hostile

    Unnecessarily Hostile New Member Full Member

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    “...said Arcel. ‘Did you know it was Benny Leonard who taught Tunney how to beat Greb? I was right there in the gym and I saw what he showed him. Leonard was a great student of boxing. He could do it all.’

    ‘I’ve often wondered about the no decision bouts in those days’ I said. ‘You take a look at Benny Leonard’s record and he’s got a lot of knockouts in the important bouts but a lot of the no decision bouts went the limit. Did they go all out in those no decision bouts or did they have an understanding to go easy?’

    In an instant Arcel came out of his chair and was facing me, his eyes combative.

    ‘The fighter never lived that Benny Leonard would have to ask to go easy on him!’

    ‘I didn’t mean it that way,’ I said. ‘I meant did he go easy on them.’

    ‘He had to go easy! He couldn’t get anybody to fight him if he didn’t agree to carry them!’”



    That’s an exchange between Leonard Gardner and Arcel covered in his article Sweeter Than Sugar which chronicles their time spent together in the weeks leading up to Duran’s violent coup of of the welterweight title against Ray Leonard in Montreal. A wonderful article and that particular exchange always stuck with me. @roughdiamond Your Arcel quote above made me think of this and cost me an hour digging that gem up, ya bast@rd! Hah


    Almost universally ranked by boxing writers and historians amongst the 10 greatest fighters ever to lace up his gloves...and rightfully so. There are not enough superlatives in my thesaurus to describe the brilliant technical innovator that Leonard was. He was poetry in motion.

    And I don’t think I can add much to the direction of the topic. So I’ll just say that for my money, The Ghetto Wizard is the undisputed champion of boxing nicknames.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019