Benny Leonard calls Primo Carnera's defense "Marvelous"

No one here is saying Carnera was a great fighter. The OVERWHELMING thought here is that Carnera was much better than given credit for. Those that are expanding the narrative beyond what is being presented are pissing against the wind.

 

For the third time, Choklab described him as just that!

 

Primo is no less great than any undisputed champion who won the tile by knockout, defended it twice and got stopped losing it.

He is not among the greatest of all times at all, but if you separate the 238lb champions from the rest Primo is as great as the majority of those ones.

 

You are off your rocker. Completely.

 

Nice oxymornon!

Not sure what you're trying to achieve here so, let's find out.........

No - I have emphasized the volume of evidence reporting on Carnera as being found wanting. This cannot be dismissed as being, in its entirety, a populist whitwassh.

Have I posted anything, which totally writes off those commentators, making favorable mention of Canera?

No, I haven't.

Whereas, choklab has quite emphatically written off every press sports writer of Carnera's era.

I have a great deal of regard for Max Schmeling. However, he is but one commentator amongst hundreds (maybe thousands), who will have made mention of Carnera over the 60+ year period, between Carnera's prime years and the publication of Schmeling's autobiography. Moreover, there is nothing in the footage, which supports an assessment of Carnera, as a good technical boxer.

If you think, on the strength of Max Schmeling's words, that we should ignore all reports, including those of Boxers, who actually faced Primo, at the time, and do not give a positive indication of Carnera's technical prowess as a Boxer, I cannot agree with you. It really is that simple.

In the main peoples' conclusions have remained unchanged. It is only recently, in this revised view of Carnera that they are now being considered as "overblown".

And, this seems to only be considered the case by choklab, janitor and yourself, who have indeed made overblown claims; overplaying your collective hand - made obvious, not least by choklab's extreme bias, the core point I made in the post you're replying to. His line of argument was a total dismissal of every single sports writer; equating each one to "some mut with a typewriter".

If you have to take an attitude of extreme bias to underpin your new found outlook on Canera, then what does it say about your new found outlook?

Have you or have you not provided several-second long video bytes to isolate and show off Carnera looking at his best?

You have - so, nothing disingenuous there.


What material faults in my analysis have you identified?

None - and your feeble reference to "ankle fracture" is nothing short of meaningless, given that you were categorically slapped down and out, the last time you raised this matter - a while ago, now.

What a strange question. To me, it doesn't imply anything but, I'm sure, to someone with your imagination and ability to take simple facts and twist them into a convoluted theory, it can imply whatever you like and a good deal more. I read the reported stories and make my own mind up.

So, after all that, you've not achieved anything at all, with your attempt to discredit my argument. I'm certainly no more convinced of Carnera's technical prowess as a Boxer and I still do not consider him as having a "Marvelous" defense.

 

Dempsey refereed Carnera ONCE ,against Impelletiere.

Just found Jeffries quote, all he says is that he thinks Carnera is a better boxer than Baer!

For f*ck's sake, who wasn't!lol

 

So did reznick: "Primo was a bonafide SHW great.".

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...-or-riddick-bowe.585492/page-37#post-18559171

And, choklab liked this post...

 

Yeah - Have I woken up in an alternative universe; one where there is a new boxing division, with 238lbs weight limit?

 

Is this a reading comprehension issue, a short term memory problem, or both?

 

Primo is a bonafide SHW great! He is not a welterweight is he? He must be included with the best 238lb plus champions.


Primo won the undisputed title by knockout. Primo defended it twice. He beat a number of the best fighters from that era and compared as well bravely loosing to max Baer and joe Louis as any other fighter stopped by them in their primes.

 

Why 238lbs?

 

Remembering that you were replying to a post that was in response to choklab and not you, directly...

No - I'll say it again. I placed emphasis on the volume of evidence, reporting on Carnera as being found wanting. This cannot be dismissed as being, in its entirety, a populist whitewash. This was the point being made to choklab - the fact you decided to jump in, misinterpret the theme of the debate for your own purposes and then tried to accuse me of being imbalanced, is neither here nor there.

You're wrong - now move on.

I don't know. But, I doubt there's very much in it, either way - and it depends on what you value most from the peer reviews, as is clear from your attitude towards the testimony of Louis.

Anyway, you can inform the forum when you've tallied them up, weighted them and can explain your findings (with workings out).

Next...

No it isn't. I see nothing in the footage you keep posting (as well as some that is available and has not been posted), which indicates he was a technically sound boxer - at least - not in any consistently sustained way. His defense was poor - end of story.

You can keep peddling the dream all you like. Just not to me, thanks.

Next...

What a surprise....

A total, out and out lie from reznik.

...provide citations, proving that I "missed" Carnera's ankle injury and claimed he wasn't injured during the fight.

Next...

Whose interpretation of "context" do I have to rely on?

Yours?

No thanks. Next...

Again - reminding you that you were replying to a post that was in response to choklab and not to you - and also that, a) you have posted several-second video bytes and, b) I wasn't summarizing Carnera's whole career, by making references to "a few seconds here and there", your statements above are total rubbish...

Next...

Please cite the post where I stated Carnera "probably didn't feature his ankle."

Next...

I know it seems hard for you to believe because you're going through the same pseudo-intellectual meltdown that you went through, the other day.

You need a vacation. Honestly.

LOL.
Does this mean Benny Leonard was right about Carnera having a "Marvelous" defense.
There's about as much evidence of that as you having a stable mental and emotional outlook.

 

QUOTE="reznick, post: 18566249, member: 54206"]You don't have to write them off to give them no emphasis. You just need to not give them their adequate attention, essentially ignoring them. That's what a lack of emphasis is.




If you add up all the peer testimonials, Primo looks more good than he looks bad.
Does he not?

Saying that the footage doesn't support Schmeling is taking a huge liberty. It's completely unfounded, it questions the legitimacy of Max Schmelings ability to assess a boxer. And quite frankly, I don't think you've earned the credibility to supersede Shcmelings analytical abilities. How could we, when you missed the fractured foot, and claimed Primo was probably not injured during his fight? A huge oversight.




You can't ignore context.
You guys are taking quotes out of context, and making exaggerated conclusions out of them that don't make sense.
For instance, you guys take a Joe Louis quote about how easily he handled Carnera, and exaggerate that to mean his wasn't a good boxer. Foreman said Frazier didn't have a left hook. But with context, you realize that Foreman is a phenom, and had to be especially talented to not get affected by Fraziers signature punch. Context.



Yes, but to address a specific detail.
Not to summarize the boxers whole career.
Which you and others have lazily accused me of, so yes, that is very disingenuous.





Is that how it plays in your imagination?
Because in reality you claimed he"probably didn't feature his ankle."
And then we proved he did with doctor reports, and footage of his actual ankle twisting when he falls, exactly when the doctor said it did.
https://streamable.com/h8y9f

You're hopelessly delusional if you think you slapped anyone down and out with this point.





You think a bad boxer can win the title from Jack Sharkey with a round 6 KO.
And then defend it twice in blowouts against Uzcudun and Tommy Loughran?[/QUOTE]
Now read what Gene Tunney who was ringside for the Carnera v Loughran and Baer fights said about him.
Vunerable chin, extremely limited boxing technique ,and no power.How's about that?
Uzcudun had not been ranked for 5 years! Carnera had over 80lbs on Loughran . My my.

 

Yeah but Tunney is not Schmeling, remember - hahahahahahha