Benny Leonard Discussion

If you're basing your rankings on resume, you're going to have a hell of a time justifying Whitaker or Duran over Leonard.

 

i have heard his say Duran was better leading up to the Ray Leonard fight but he took it alll back the next year.

the more i look at Leonard the more he has to be LW number 1

 

I believe I'm going to have to pull a Ray Arcel at this point when it comes to P4P rankings and say it's too close to split hairs and they were both ATG's.

Still, Leonard's lightweight resume does it for me at ranking him #1 over Duran at that weight, though Duran had the better accomplishments as he moved up.

 

Arcel worked with Leonard when he made his aborative comeback as a Welterweight ,due to financial reasons.
Arcel never worked with the prime Lightweight Leonard .

 

MCVEY youre right arcel did train leonard for his comeback but arcel says he befriended leonard in 1917 at grupps gym where arcel said he absorbed all of leonards knowledge arcel also said of leonard that he his greatness is his ability to think and make his opponent do things that he wanted them to do

 

7th or 8th.

 

That may well be so .
For me Leonard is my no1 Lightweight .
Arcel learned his trade from Welshman Dai Dollings and Frank Doc Bagley ,who taught him how to close cuts.

 

from what i have read i would agree

1,leonard
2,duran
3,whitaker

 

Arcel definitly watched a pime Benny Leonard and watched a prime Duran.

 

Arcel worked with Duran till " No Mas" ,then he quit him.
Arcel was the first trainer inducted into the HOF.

 

Ted Spoon and I were exchanging ideas on Benny Leonard at one time, and a point he made (and I wholeheartedly agree) was that Leonard was an absolute master at spacing...given his experience fighting in a difficult lightweight era, he was excellent at maintaining his range. When a fighter is able to maintain his range, and do the things he wants to do offensively (or defensively) it just makes sense that the fighter would be hard to beat. Fantastic footwork...
I wonder ...Who the boxing people back in the day, felt had the best footwork? Benny Leonard or Mike Gibbons?

 

I think Leonard once won a 100+ fights in a row. He defeated the who's who of his time.

 

Arcel wprkef one fight after no mas i believe

 

May call for research that one.

The 'oldies', particularly in the early part of 20th century were big on 'distancing'. During sparring sessions they worked on their 'wind', their favoured punches and distancing.

Leonard was a master at it. His feet would chain you next to him yet leave you lost. So brilliant he was at utterly out-boxing you, not getting involved in the slightest. He did not have to get physical or use the equaliser, it was all technique.

 

[HTML]May call for research that one.[/HTML]
I think that would be a good call, Ted Spoon...It would account for some interesting reading in regards to appreciating what the 'oldies' brought to the game. Cheers.