Benny Leonard v Jack Britton Rematch?

There's was talk of a fix the next day in the newspapers after the fight.

These things we can never know for sure. That's the thing with fixes, they are very hard to prove. It's often hard to prove a fight was on the level too.

 

True L,"fixes" are hard to prove. But I believe the testimony of Manny Seamon who was with Benny Leonard and Billy Gibson in the dressing room before entering the ring...He had no reason to lie about his statement before he died...When i get home I will track down the interview I read in a popular selling boxing anthology of famous trainers...

 

The interview with Seamon was taken not by Ronald Fried himself, but taken from Sunday Empire News from 1948, long before Seamon died in 1983.

 

What the hell difference would that make as long as it was the truth....Maybe yes and maybe no, but Manny Seamon was the direct source of this information... Finito !

 

I simply pointed out a fact, by looking at the interview in the book that you refering to.

As I said, if you want to believe in fix, do as you wish. I will rather take Leonard's own explanation and the opinions of respected contemporary reporters.

 

I think what Senya is trying to say is that a death bed confession is so much more dramatic. You confess it because you have to get something off your chest. On the other hand if the interview was in 1948 then Leonard had just died which puts the quote in an entirely different context.

 

Sunday Empire News was a British weekly newspaper btw.

 

LR, Benny Leonard died in 1947 BTW. When Manny Seamon revealed this information Gibson and Benny Leonard were dead. Seamon REVERED two fighters...The great Benny Leonard and Joe Louis. A "deathbed " confession
wasn't because of guilt that Manny Seamon felt for something he did...No he loved Benny Leonard and protected the fact that his idol "Bennah",was part of a DIVE, though an understandable one considering his life and his manager's were in danger if he didn't comply...Benny Leonard did what he HAD to do, knowing that he still held the lightweight title...Cheers...

 

I know he died in '47 refereeing a match if i'm not mistaken. The fact that he idolized Leonard kinda makes Senya's point; what he said was essentially making excuses for Leonard's poor showing. And the story is so positive towards Leonard; he's not throwing the fight out of greed he's throwing it because he had to, a victim of malevolent forces. It all seems like hero worship, Ali chunking his gold medal out of frustration at the injustice in the world.

And having said all that i'm still not convinced. Leonard and Britton had fought before and both fights e'er close, no where near as one sided as this affair. And it's not like Leonard was shot; he was past his apex but still in his prime. Britton on the other hand was declining certainly much more rapidly than Leonard. It's possible that Leonard agreed to throw the fight and found Britton enjoying it to much after 10 rounds and started to fight in earnest before he relented and bowed out as quickly as he could. Neither version really detracts from his legacy and the truth, from this far away is probably lost.

 

Yes, the truth is lost to history.
We simply don't know.

The fight raised eyebrows at the time, immediately. Fixes happen.
On the other hand, strange things happen anyway, and there are explanations other than a fix.
It's a case where one explanation is not any more likely than the other. We just don't know.

 

LR, seriously if YOUR version was true that "Leonard agreed to THROW the fight, why would the respected Manny Seamon not tell this scenario just before he died ? Why when before Seamon died and got this secret "off his chest", had to concoct another lie, by saying that he heard Billy Gibson tell the weeping Leonard "Benny you can't win tonight" !!! Like ripping off a band-aid and leaving it still half on... Confessing half way doesn't truly get
things off one's chest...Furthermore Senya's contention was that the 26 year old Benny Leonard who twice before had ND wins over the bigger Britton,was losing most every round in this bout and to SAVE FACE purposely fouled Jack Britton whom he dropped with a body shot, just WHEN the TIDE had turned in the 13th rd...Common sense dictates that
when you have your opponent down, you finally have a great shot to win, and therefore you go all out to avoid the taint of defeat...The coolest thinking lightweight of alltime on the verge of victory and winning a WW title, doesn't TAP his fallen victim on the side of the head, UNLESS HE KNEW HE HAD TO LOSE...Cheers...

 

http://senya13.blogspot.com/2012/04/1922-06-26-jack-britton-w-dq13-benny.html

 

L, either Manny Seamon before he died , told the DARN TRUTH that Billy Gibson told Leonard that "Benny ,you can't win tonight", or Seamon LIED...Yes or NO. I believe Seamon who was as respected a trainer as anyone in history told the real truth before he DIED, and after Leonard passed away...Simple as that...:good

 

One more time.
Ronald K. Fried - Corner Men. Great Boxing Trainers. (First edition, April 1991)
page 247

"Fortunately, Seamon told his version in the Sunday Empire News in 1948:
..."

Seamon died in 1983, 35 years later after telling this story to a London weekly newspaper. This is not "just before he died".

 

Here is the story that Burt is talking about (click to enlarge).

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