Benny Leonard vs Vasyl Lomachenko primes

You clearly haven't if that's all you think about him as a fighter or denying that he's fighting guys who are clearly all bigger then him and still beating them also you do realize it goes both ways right? People have time to prepare for him just as he has time to prepare for them but according to your argument every good fighter should be undefeated in today's era because they all have time to prepare for their opponent?

 

So all of his opponents are only fighting twice a year, lol?

No they are not bigger than him. If he weights 135 and they weigh 135, they are in the same weight division. That’s how it works. You’re complaining about him giving up 3 pounds in a fight as unfair, lol.

Stop acting like he’s a featherweight fighting lightweights. He’s been a lightweight for SEVEN YEARS.

 

You literally have no idea how size works let me explain it to you as if you were 5 just because two people are the same size during the weigh in DOESN"T MEAN THEY"RE THE SAME WEIGHT DURING THE FIGHT. Most people today cut a lot of weight to have an advantage Loma doesn't cut weight which is why almost all of his opponents have a size advantage over them. If you actually had eyes you would notice this but I guess when your only source for fights is wiki you miss this very obvious detail.

 

That’s just excuses and an attempt to hype him as if he was a bantamweight fighting middleweights.

You’re the one who doesn’t understand how it works.

The rules say you weigh in and that’s the weight division you’re in. I don’t need wiki (why the **** you keep bringing that up when I’ve never cited it is beyond me, but it’s infantile) to tell me that’s how boxing works because it’s worked that way for well over a century.

Weigh in the same day, weigh in the day before, whatever — your weight gets recorded at the weigh-in and you fight in that division. If you weigh 135 at the weigh-in, you’re a lightweight. Nobody wants to hear the ‘poor little Loma’ excuses as if he’s in some kind of two-on-one handicap match.

If he’s comfortable and thinks he’s more optimal gaining fewer pounds after the weigh-in than his opponent, that’s his choice. If he wants to gain more (I’m going to presume when he was fighting feather and below lightweight he probably cut some weight and rehydrated after too, but it doesn’t matter either way), that’s his choice. But he’s a lightweight and has been one for seven years. If he can make a lighter weight, maybe he should do that since he’s been losing lately and see if that improves his fortunes.

Now, since you keep repeating it and crying ‘wiki wiki wiki,’ do you have a list for us fight by fight of his in-ring weight and his opponent’s? Or is this just ‘I have eyes,’ lol? Have your eyes seen each fighter step on the scale on the way to the ring to provide substance to your claims … or is it just you repeating the ‘Loma excuse narrative’?

And did you forget that one of his ‘big’ wins is over Rigondeaux, who was fighting a full division below Loma and after dropped all the way to bantamweight. So Loma’s been on both sides of it, but on the night they fought they were in the same weight division and I’ll bet you didn’t put an asterisk beside that win, haha.

 

Good grief, Benny Leonard would pick his teeth with Lomachenko’s bones. Folks would laugh at suggesting Duran or Armstrong vs Loma, Benny’s at that level at minimum or perhaps to some alone in a tier above them.

 

I laughed at @themaster458 saying all you know from boxing is from Wikipedia. I wonder how many fighters he has trained?

 

At the peak of Loma’s hype even people who didn’t watch boxing knew his name… the matrix boxer! matched up with Duran 50-50.
The height of modern boxing! highlight reel rata tap tap combos, scientific future predicting space age defence unseen! Cossack dancing back stories told everywhere I went, people oooh and aaah ‘d about him training his eyes, doing mind puzzles in the secret Far East European labs and he drew in about a thousand pseudo philosopher “coaching” YouTubers to talk about how he (gasp) CHOSE to be a southpaw because it went back to sword fighting or something - Then what happened?

 

Learn how cutting weight works and then talk because its obvious you're clueless and think weight classes are the same now as they were in the past typical case of boomer brainrot do some research and then talk till then ciao

 

Nah he'd win

 

You realize how bad it makes you look that you keep hurling childish insults rather than defend or articulate your point, don’t you?

I know how cutting weight works. I asked you to present in-ring weights for Loma and each opponent, but you just parrot the Loma fanboi party line — you must think if you it enough that makes it true.

I pointed out how one of his ‘big’ wins is over a guy who is now, years later, fighting at bantamweight (after moving up to face Loma), which by your own reasoning means your boy was the weight bully earlier in his career, but you don’t cry about the unfairness of that one or even address it.

Get back to me when you have actual in-ring weights for all his fights (both Loma and his opponent) and are willing to admit he, too, has fought ‘smaller’ guys — only his smaller guy in the case cited had moved up from a lighter division and then moved down from 135 to 118 after fighting Loma, while Loma himself has been a lightweight for seven years.

 

I did think that Master was a bit younger considering the "points" he's making, but damn. Life ain't long enough to be ignorant that late.

 

How has it advanced?

 

In every way in terms of techniques, in terms of training, in terms of size, in terms of athleticism, in terms of preparation for a fight, in terms of nutrition , in terms of rules etc boxing is a very different sport from how it was 100 years ago but that seems to be something you boomers can't seem to grasp.

 

Can I just add something to this discussion and I'm not taking sides here or trying to overrate Lomachenko.

The fight against Salido was a farce Salido missed the weight and came into the fight as a Welterweight weighing 147 pounds at a fight scheduled at Featherweight. Not only that but Salido was allowed to low blow all night long without a single warning or point deduction. And when Lomachenko had Salido out on his feet in the 12th round the referee allowed Salido to hold on like an octopus without a single warning.

So overall Salido cheated coming in way over the weight limit and then had a biased referee allowing him to foul all night long on a similar level to Mares vs Agbeko 1 so make of that what you will.

Haney is one of the worst notorious weight bullies in the modern era. Just to put it into perspective recently he rehydrated to 165 pounds vs Prograis which is bigger than Marvin Hagler. Haney for most of his fights rehydrates to a Middleweight having atleast 20-25 pound over pretty much every opponent hes fought including Lomachenko. And still with the massive weight advantage pretty much most fans believe Lomachenko was robbed vs Haney.

The loss to Teofimo Lopez no excuses Lomachenko had a bad gameplan and was far too cautious early on that's on him.

Overall you can't look at Lomachenko's record and say "well hes 18-3". Unlike most professionals hes been fighting mostly world class opponents in those 21 fights and has won titles in 3 different weightclasses in those 21 fights. 2 of those losses are highly controversial in which he was fighting against fighters who had massive weight advantages over him so you have to take that into consideration.

All in all I don't think Lomachenko is an ATG or anywhere close to it but if he can get another big win at the end of his career against someone like Gervonta Davis I'd have no problem classing him as a great.

 

Good take thank you for being one of the only reasonable people in this thread and giving Loma respect. One thing I'd add I rewatched the Lopez fight and honestly it was closer then people remember I think a draw or even a Loma win is a reasonable scorecard he was really beating Lopez up in 8th-11th round and won those way more clearly then Lopez won his rounds and there were a few other close rounds that I think you can make an argument that Loma won, but def not a robbery just a close fight now Haney was a robbery but I think most people here would agree with that.