Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

I don't know if you are intending to start an argument or if you really believe this post, but I have to directly contradict your post.

No LW would "beat the ****" out of a prime Benny Leonard.

No LW would "clearly outbox" Benny Leonard.

 

I've been hiding my eyes from looking at it plainly... for years. Partly because Duran is a rare breed -he scores high on dominance and he collected bigger scalps; That makes it almost insulting to put any natural LW ahead of the man in his natural division. I think if someone asks, I'll just plead the 5th.

Anyone who ranks Ray ahead of Roberto, has a limping reputation in the eyes of purists -however self-appointed we may be.

What is your criteria? I've developed one and it doesn't allow Benny to come within 4 paces of Duran, though he does make the top ten.

 

Duran and Napoles would KO him sooner or later at their best. Mayweather/Whitaker would outbox him, Whitaker more comprehensively. Times have changed from Benny's era and while great for his time boxing has moved in. Having said that Mayweather and Leonard have stylistic similarities but FMJ has a bigger box of tricks and athletic ability

 

I been saying the same thing for a long time. When it comes to stiff competition, there is none more demanding than leonard's. Duran's comp at the same weight was just average. IMO, Benny would have outboxed Duran no doubt about it

 

Dunno why you left out Ben vs Ted Kid Lewis?

 

Duran well and truely above Hagler "pound for pound". :good

 

Did Leonard cut any weight? How would a lightweight from that era stack up against a lightweight from today size-wise?

 

really?

dont see it myself i think Leonrd has the speed, movement and intellignce to beat Arguello

i have Leonard number 1 at Lightweight but Duran ahead pound for pound. Leonard at Lightweight was one of the most dominant champs ever.

agree completly

if anyone i would pick to do the outboxing of Leonard Whittaker would be my pick. but i still dont think he does it.

how d you know Napoles would do it youve at most saw a 3 min clip of him at LW

 

How come he went 15rds with Jim Watt then ?
And, only got a split dec over Ramirez?
Arguello was slow footed and troubled by boxers ,and no one was a better boxer than Leonard.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov-IZlLxQoI[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g[/ame]

 

There's plenty of doubt about it.

Duran was extraordinarily difficult for any man his size to beat. DeJesus caught him when he was about 22 but it was avenged -decisively- twice. Duran's skill is greater than any LW Leonard ever faced and comes damn close to matching Leonard's himself. His ferocity was twice that of Tendler.

He is simply more formidable than anything Benny faced including McLarnin. And despite Benny the Brain's reputation as a ring-intellectual, Duran was no dummy in there. Someone said that Mayweather would beat Duran because of the old "brains over brawn" thesis. Duran's level of skill matches his level of brutality. He is "brainy-brawn". And it is awfully tough to beat that.

--That's why Duran was kicking the hell out of much larger prey.

Even when he was no longer the stronger guy, the more powerful guy, the faster guy, the more athletic guy --he could whip them anyway just because of his brains. Leonard cannot match him there... not even close. Now, 1978 Duran facing Benny, who he was stronger than, hit harder than, and was two inches taller than, is going to easily get outboxed?

 

Times have indeed changed, my friend. But the level of Benny's skill has not been topped by anyone I've ever seen. And his level of skill has not been topped by anyone you've ever seen either, despite your protestations to the contrary. Benny Leonard, like Joe Gans, is an exception to the argument that fighters before 1920 were something less.

...If "Ghetto Wizardry" or "Bennyology" were a college class, I'd encourage to study more.

 

Sorry Turpin, but i just can't understand that you don't have Leonard in the top ten, and then when you put forward ten guys, Joe Gans wasn't even in there. I don't mean to be a critic, but it's a bit mad imo. I know your reasoning's a bit to do with the h2h aspect of greatness, but still, not in the top ten i can't handle.