Bernard Hopkins and steroids

The first paragraph you wrote clearly demonstrates your lack of ped knowledge. It`like you read something and took it as irrefutable fact without researching further, or digging deeper and questioning, or even using some peds yourself to really see if they work. They are effective in aiding physical enhancement...that is irrefutable fact backed by clinical study on athletes, and in practical application.They are even used in medicine to help with muscle wasting and to promote healing among other things. They work. If you enhance your physical self, then it is logical that you can aid your performance in sport through being stronger, or bigger, or cutting weight easier ,or holding weight easier, or training longer, training with more intensity, recovering faster, absorbing nutrients more effectively, not feeling the effects of wear and tear from training etc etc etc etc. They are not called performance enhancing drugs by the MEDICAL COMMUNITY because they are placebo, or don`t work, or make you worse. They work. Period point blank. They are effective, but individual base talent would always be higher in the elite, even if everyone used....they don`t make you an elite superstar if you only have C class ability to begin with, but they could aid in getting you higher up than if not using.

I never said Nard uses, the poll asks if it is possible, and boxing is not a clean sport, so it is not impossible...thinking otherwise is self delusion. This is a pro sport with big money. The motives are huge to do what it takes to get to the top, and stay there. That is a common culture in most pro sports. It may not be likely, but it is not impossible.

And Nard is in no way a weak, out of shape, poorly conditioned fighter who is so physically outgunned every time he fights....if that was the case, no amount of ring smarts and saavy would save him from being walked down and beaten by the top guys. He is in good shape to be sure, or he couldn`t be at the level he is, no matter how economical he fights these days. He is most definiely an anomaly.....what he is doing is almost unprecendented for a man his age and it doesn`t matter if he is clean or not. If clean living, developing your ring saavy, footwork and generalship, and dedication were the only requirements to fighting to 50 and being world class....it would have happened many times over by now. It hasn`t, he is unique.

 

Athletes that use PED's are diciplined athletes, your point is invalid!

Ask his teamates and to a man they will say Roger Clemens was diciplined beyond belief.

My point is being diciplined is a prerequisite to make PED's work for you.
DUH!

 

dealt with....i would also say that i totally understand your points on the efficency of ped use. But, that argument truly has more to do with intangibles than the fact that they do indeed, and irrefutably aid in enhancing your physical ability. Athlete A may receive more perceived benefit than athlete B..this is true...but individuality plays a major role in that. Not eveyone is the same, and athletes all have base talent levels, and differing absolute potentials and peak levels of ability and physical output. using peds can get an athlete to his absolute peak potential quicker than grinding it out for years and years making slower progress, and some guys may never even reach that peak potential coventionally. overall ability and talent wins out in the long run even if everyone was on peds.

for the record, i have my doubts nard uses...but i would never say never.

 

It's generally second tier athletes who feel like they need every advantage. In a pure endurance sport like cycling the top guys probably feel like they need it to compete (Armstrong). In bodybuilding (if you call that a sport) you almost certainly need them to compete, since building muscle is one thing they've generally shown to do.
In a sport like boxing? The fittest aerobically guys are at around 60ml.kg.min VO2max, their strength is not high, they have weight classes so extra muscle mass provides no performance advantages. They are not elite strength or endurance athletes, in pure endurance or strength sports the human body is being pushed to its limits. Not in boxing, if you use EPO and it helps your aerobic performance, you take something else that's meant to make you recover faster, it's still not going to make a measurable difference. Boxers don't know how to periodize their training, they don't know when to focus on strength, power, increasing aerobic capacity. Those things are going to effect performance far more than a guy turning up at training camp and believing some substances are going to do the work for him. Boxing isn't pushing human capabilities in any aspect of fitness so the unproven, theoretical benefits from banned drugs aren't going to give anyone any measurable advantage.
If a boxer wants to use banned drugs I say go for it, it's his health at risk. It's not going to help performance. I dislike cheating as much as anyone.
Bernard Hopkins isn't naive enough, he knows that his physical decline is inevitable and that his skills, intelligence and mental strength are the important variables in his fights. He takes pride in what he does, he loves boxing and he likes to compare himself to the old timers. I believe that there are boxers out there taking banned substances because boxers generally aren't that smart and there are a lot of shady characters around the fight game.
I would bet my life that Hopkins has never even thought about touching a banned substance, he's a stand up guy with principles. I hate Hopkins spoiling style, the way he holds, the way he tries to make it 'not a fight', his lack of punching power, his lack of work rate, his complaining of decisions that go against him. I don't like him as fighter but I respect the hell out of him, I respect what he's achieved and he'll go down as an all time great. He has out skilled and outpointed many a superior physical fighter.
I understand that since Mayweather started the whole PED's in boxing thing that everybody wants to accuse everybody, but leave Hopkins out of it.
Have some respect for the sweet science. The sweet science is what Hopkins lives by.

 

His skillset is a great part of his sucess, but so is his physicality.
Since his middleweight days Hopkins has been one of the most physical fighters in the sport, still is.

Hopkins incorporates alot of clinching and mauling tactics to his craft, get with the program, of course physicality has alot to do with his sucess as well.

 

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Try sparring anyone full tilt for just 3 lousy minutes and tell me and does'nt push your physical limits! :nut

PED's dont help performance?

PED"s are being taken in skill sports like Baseball and tennis, what the hell are you talking about?

Get atta heeeeeere! :nut

 

I typed out a lengthy reply to this but my server died..

I researched performance enhancing drugs as part of my undergrad and post grad studies. There is a big difference between an ill person and an untrained person, let alone an experienced athlete. There is no scientific evidence for the biggest, baddest PED's and you think that everything on the banned list is proven to be performance enhancing? It's a theoretical list, if a cold and flu tablet has any CNS stimulating properties it gets put on the list. They are simply substances that have physiological effects and could theoretically aide with some aspect of performance in particular sports. Each sport doesn't have its own list, some theoretical performance enhancers would have detrimental effects in certain sports. Every sport has different bioenergetic demands and profiles of their athletes. The list doesn't take that into account, everything is just dumped into a list if it MIGHT help performance in some way in some sport. There are no scientific studies investigating if substances on the list help performance in athletes, they are medical substances. It's honestly a joke that some of the things on that list are there, a lot of things such as peptides (with no human trials even taking place at anytime in any circumstances) are on there. You take them and you're labelled as a cheater, end of. When gene doping takes off then you have something to talk about but 'PED's' at the moment isn't what the general public and media like to paint it as.
Open your mind up and do a bit of research.

Hopkins fights in a weight class so he's not going to get pushed around and walked over, not to mention his evasiveness and boxing skills. If Hopkins looked like he was physically on the same level as his opponents then you could (foolishly mind you) make some noise about PED's. He's clearly not and he's clearly competing due to his advanced boxing skills and brain. This should be dead now, we all know how some ******s idiot idea can spread around this place.

 

atsch
What is a boxers VO2max, maximum strength? Lactate levels reach far higher levels in other sports. I'm not saying boxing doesn't require good fitness but boxing is a hybrid sport, it's not pushing anything about human fitness to the limits.
Seriously, you're too dumb to even bother responding to.

 

Is this question popping up because of him beating these young guys at his age?

Anybody who says that BHop is winning because of juicing only sees an old guy competing with young guys... And winning. But if you look past it you'll see it isn't drugs, but years and years and YEARS of craft at work. It's not even physical anymore. It's damn near 100% mental now at his age.

He KO's your ****ing brain. Pisses you off, does **** to make you retaliate. Gets YOU in trouble with the ref. Throws you off your game. If you can keep composed you should be able to beat him, but if you give in to his mind tricks you lose.

Simple as that. No steroid on earth can make you as crafty as Hopkins. I guess that's why Nacho says Bernard is his favorite fighter. He appreciates Hopkins for what he's capable of both physically and mentally.

 

What the **** are you talking about. Physical conditioning is a pre-requisite to boxing at the highest level.

" It does'nt push human fitness." You're a trolling idiot!

 

B-hop looks great against bulls young or not but his weakness was always hand speed. And B-hop has been consistent his whole career. He fought like an old man when he was young and he fights like an old man when he is old. His output has always been low while ring generating low IQ aggressive types. He just never took punishment, every breath, step, punch has meaning and lives a very stringent, disciplined life. His biggest ace in the hole is that 90% of boxers don't know what the "sweet science" is. Today guys like JMM **** drinker are thought of as technicians which is sad when you look at guys like B-Hop, Floyd and Ward. It's just like in mma where only .01 percent are martial artists while the rest are just Gatti sequence tough guys that go out on their shield its the same in boxing where the huge minority employ the sweet science. And these punching bags get more credit(manny, JMM), get more credit for being entertaining. B-hop doesn't take PED's. He's just the Zhuge Liang of boxing is all. The Manny's and now the JMMarquez's take PED's.

 

You can be using, whether you look muscular or not. Steroids do not equal muscle. Highly, highly doubt he is though.

 

Considering his decreased stamina, decreased power and decreased speed if he's on steroids he needs better ones.

I doubt Hopkins is on steroids despite his success he would be one of the least likely fighters I suspect of being on PEDS.

His self discipline is legendary and he doesn't beat fighters by being physically better then them but by out smarting them and out boxing them. PEDS don't improve boxing skills only the physical which with Hopkins have clearly declined.

 

You're not serious!

You mean you consider fighters that clinch, hold, and stall fights technicians????

A two fisted fighter like Marquez that throws every punch in existence, does'nt fall into clinches, and who sets up and makes fighters run into his shots is a lesser fighter than Hopkins who uses illegal tactics to gain an edge.

Sorry, but I would think most fans would rather see pure unadulterated boxing, without the clinching, elbowing, roughhousing, and what have you.

 

Archie Moore also fought in a time when the mafia determined the outcome of fights most of the time.