Bernard Hopkins? ATG? Debateable!

I always wonder about threads like this if the person who starts it actually believes it, or is just trying to upset people. I mean, this list, are you serious? Hopkins should of fought Barkley? Barkley was washed up and fighting heavyweights when Hopkins won the title! Gerald Mcllellan was brain dead! Toney hadn't fought at middle for years at that point. Either you have absolutely no idea of timelines or you are being deliberately provocative.

I was replying to Iceman71's list.

 

thanks bro. I am not a pretentious ******* that is why i asked. i am impressed by his longevity really, although i was not impressed with how he handled jc. i thought he could have whooped him really well if he poured him on. but then again, the guy is 43, so one should not expect too much of him.

as much as i want to research his entire career, i cant really man. i have tons of things to do other than esb really. got a job, kids, a wife and football also. but this is a learning thread for me.

passionate but otherwise intelligent discussion mostly. refreshing at least to talk compared to some haters around here.

 

I see

 

By Dwarfs you mean the 5'11'' WBA Middleweight Champion, Felix Trinidad, and 5'11'' WBO Middleweight Champion, Oscar DLH?

 

You're completely right. All sensible debate in this thread died long ago (if there ever was any). When keyboard warriors starting threatening to steal each others lunch money, you know it's time to move on to a new thread.

 

1. Actually, the fact that Hopkins was about 15 pounds overweight and coming directly out of jail to start a pro boxing career had more to do with his losing his pro debut.
2. The Amir Khan comparison is silly. Khan is held to high standards- sometimes too high, I'll admit- because he was an amateur superstar, an Olympic medalist groomed for the heights of the professional ranks since he was a little kid. Hopkins was nothing of the sort. As noted above, he was an undistinguished ex-con who had lost his pro debut. No one cares if a guy who's, say, 13-12 fights people with poor records either; the high standards sometimes used here are specifically intended for fighters who are "supposed" to be exceptional and ready to perform as professionals. Hopkins was not one of those guys in the early stages of his carer,
3. Hopkins could not "only" pick up a draw against Mercado; as a matter of fact, he won the first fight in the eyes of most I've heard from, and then he thrashed Mercado in the rematch.
4. The "started-his-career-X-pounds-lighter" thing is deliberately misleading, as Hopkins obviously started his career overweight, while the likes of De La Hoya and Trinidad killed themselves to make lower divisions.
5. The entire "wins-over-smaller-men" motif falls flat given that Hopkins also moved directly up from middleweight to dominantly defeat the reigning world light heavyweight champion (a fact you hastily skirt over with a "Rocky" reference), along with clinics over future light heavyweight champion Johnson and very big middleweight champion Pavlik.
6. Your argument against Pavlik's standing is circular and illogical; essentially, you're saying that Hopkins' win over Pavlik isn't meaningful because Pavlik is overrated, and you think Pavlik is overrated BECAUSE Hopkins beat him- proving the point by assuming it, more or less.

 

That might be so but he holds a lot of credibility as a impartial poster. Just ask other people.

 

hopkins was a middleweight contender right in the mix with all these guys....youre a ****ing idiot for the mcllelan reference. him and hopkins were on the same pace.mclellan was middleweight champ in 1993 and 1994, while hopkins was fighting roy ritchie, gilbert baptist, melvin wynn- while G-Man was fighting and unifying against Julian Jackson, Hopkins was fighting segundo mercardo....
your bringing up when he won his first title. who gives a **** about that. in the early 90s, all those guys were around . 1992 Hopkins had 20 fights already.....
so yeah, after BHop lost to roy in 1993 for a title he didnt unify **** until 2001 and only fighting **** fights with exception of undefeated glenn johnson in 1997, and from 1997 to 2001, andrew council (yawn) echols (2 times) yawn) robert allen - an appalling 3 fights ( extra yawn) the exciting syd vanderpool (vanderwho?) and the underachieving keith holmes.
so he pretty much didnt do **** in the 90s except do what joe calzaghe, ottke and zolt ederi did in their countries...fight the least tough fights.
so yeah, he did wait for barkely to get fat and move to heavy while he was fighting all these no name stiffs, and yeah, same with the GMAN, he had 2 years they could have hooked up. i could make a case for all the guys in that list of 9. the whole point is he couldnt fight 1 ****ing guy from that list? there is no EXCUSING that. so quit sucking his nuts. Bhop is a great fighter and super smart, but the fact remains, he didnt fight alot of the great middles of the 90s...actually he didnt fight but 1 and lost....
:deal

 

I agree with this thread, Hopkins is a true champ but not an all time great he did make his name out of smaller men and he has lost to average fighters you cant be a great with a record like that!

 

Trinidad lost because his cheating tactics were exposed prrior ro the fight by Bernards Trainer Bouie Fisher. When Tito didn't have his plaster paris nad wraps he couldn't do shyt to Bernard. That is all!

 

I think the main reason he lost is because he was about 2 weight classes out of his comfort zone. dont get me wrong i know what your saying but wraps or no wraps he was never going to win.

 

None of these fighters were at MW during his career.

1) nunn - Last fight at MW was in 91, Hopkins was in his 10th fight.
2) Eubank - Last fight at MW was 91, see above.
3) Benn - Last fight at MW was 91, see above.
4) mCcallum - Last fight at MW was 92, see above.
5) julian jackson - Last fight at MW was 97, but was not at top fighter anymore. Hopkins was not prominant until about 96-97.
6) steve collins - Last fight at MW was 94, see above.
7) mcllellan - Last fight at MW was 94, see above...and we all know the terrible thing that happened in his next fight.
8) barkley - Last fight at MW was in 1990, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
9) toney - Last fight at MW was 92, see first point.

Nice try tho...

 

Thank you. Very much appreciated.

:good

I have this actually because I lost a lifetime avatar bet to a poster named Decebal...he chose this one because he respected me as a poster and couldnt bring himself to give me one I wouldnt like.