Bernard Hopkins is badly overrated

No need to explain it my man, everyone knows that halger was the better fighter.

Bernard is lacking natural raw talent. he was a gym rat who had to learn his craft unlike the physically gifted athletes that have entered the ring such as RJJ

 

Echols former top Contender in the Division.
Tarver former two time light heavy champion.
ODLH former junior light, light, super-light, welter, super-welter and wbo middle champion in the biggest fight made in the new century ahainst Bernard before "The World Awaits".
Tito undefeated former welter, super-welter and WBA middle titlist.
Joppy - former three time WBA Champion.
Winky - former unified junior middle champ, former WBC nº1 middle contender, a top 10 P4P fighter.
Taylor - Former Top P4Per, undefeated middle titlist, won a SD and UD by scores of 115-113 against him.

When Hopkins won a middle title, James Toney was already a Super-Middle, that was why Bernard and Roy fought for the IBF vacant gettit? James came moving up ever since he lost his IBF super middle strap in Nov 1994 against Roy. McCallum lost to Toney at Middleweight in 1992 and moved up to light heavy to take Jeff Harding's WBC title in July 94, Eubank made his last 160 pound WBO title fight in June 91, Benn his last at 160 against Robbie Sims in April 91 after losing WBO title to Eubanks in November 1990... The only name that could have fought and probably will if he moves to the US for the first time since winning the WBO Super middle title in October 1997 is Calzaghe of course. I have already asked myself and hope you were pleased with my answer to myself.

 

It was just a counter-argument to someone who said that Bernard drew and lost Title fights, but he still won 20, unified the IBF version with the WBC's, the WBA's and the WBO's and took mandatory challengers. If any of those defenses are debatable, let's hear it or else... there's no debate.

 

Dorfmeister,you cant just count the 'successful' world title fights that hoppo had,you have got to count the loss to jones,the mercado draw and the taylor losses,these were all world title fights and he did not win these...Monzon won 100% of his 15 world title fights,no losses,no draws....
As for trying to make out hoppos competition to be great by means of saying such and such was a top contendor or won titles at such and such time and weight,well monzons comp included atgs emille griffith (two weight world champ at welter and middle.) atg,reigning world welter champ and p4p no1 at the time jose napoles,world middle champ and great rodrigo valdez,world middle champ and atg nino benvenuti,great fighter and top middleweight challenger bennie briscoe,im not even including the rest of his world title opposition...
As for hagler he fought nearly all of the no1 contendors for a decade,and world middle champs duran,leonard and hearns who were all also p4p atgs and multiple weight champs and,in hearns and leonards cases champions ABOVE middleweight.....
By your reasoning calzaghe and ottke are undisouted no1 of all times in the supermids and possibly p4p just by virtue of years at the top and number of defenses,never mind the quality feel the width hey????....

 

I never meant to descredit Monzon and Hagler or to compare them with B-Hop ( and din't do that) but to credit Bernard for fighting and ( making the 160-pound weight) for his decade. Actually, the thread clearly descredits Bernard and I feel the quality of his opposition is not bad compared to Floyd's, Marquez, Cotto or any other P4Per, that is the point here... He is not overrated and so are not Ottke and Calzaghe, whatever label you and only you want to attribute them, my prerrogative would be just that Bernard is one of the best middleweights who ever lived. FULL STOP.

 

You actually think Watts and Monroe were a level below the likes of Joppy and Holmes. The only reason they held a belt is because they fought in an era of multiple champions. You actually think the likes of Monroe, Watts, Briscoe, Billy Douglas couldn't have held a useless strap for a short while? Get real.

I've a feeling my knowledge of boxing history is more advanced than yours (even by your above post, it's obvious you're nothing more than a Boxrec Warrior). We shall see.* :good




* But if you're gonna bet, I'd put money on me. :yep

 

In truth haglers era was not the strongest in middleweights either,i would say the best resume is that of monzon....However,we cant overlook the quality of haglers lighter opposition,leonard,duran and hearns could trouble or beat many atg middleweights....
Hopkins must be given credit for longevity and beating a long line of challengers,but you know there are many great fighters he never fought and he never beat as good a fighter as hearns,valdez,duran,napoles,benvenuti,griffith and indeed lost in world title fight TWICE in a row to taylor,does anyone think taylor is a great fighter?

 

That's the thing, Halger's era wasn't that strong, a bit stronger than Hopkins' nonetheless, but the lighter guys he beat were bonafide legends- and could cut it at the 160 weight. Only Trinidad (albeit briefly) proved he could compete at the top notch middleweight level. Still, Felix was a guy that spent nearly more time on the canvas at welterweight than Floyd Patterson did at heavy. :yep

 

At least hagler avenged all his early defeats and draws emphatically,he knocked out watts and monroe twice each in rematches,he stopped vito in the rematch after the draw, and his other draw with seales was contrasted with a stoppage and then a one round blowout...
The only loss/draw which hagler didnt avenge was his loss to the almost incomparable ray leonard......
Hopkins never avenged jones or taylor (i will leave out his debut loss to clifton.),but to his eternal credit beat the legendary mercado in the rematch.....:rasta

 

Nard became a terrific fighter through superior dedication to learning his craft. He became a consummate professional and that can't be taken away from him. And he was extremely smart and cagey in and out of the ring. My gripe with him that he was too smart out of the ring and avoided certain people at various times in his title reign. He should be given credit for being an even better manager than fighter with the way he was able to carefully craft 20 title defenses. He deserves to be inducted in Canastota as a manager as well as a fighter.

Here are of my words from another thread that will give an example of Nard's brilliance:

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And another thing he did that froths my glass but was typical of Nard's brilliance was that he made ever growing Syd Vanderpool weight in on THE DAY of his title fight with him or he was going to pull out of the fight. Can you believe that! Of course Vanderpool had to agree, he had no leverage to refuse, because he stood to make nothing if he refused. And at this point in time NO ONE was weighing in on the day of their fight. But Nard instituted a unilateral rule that completely compromised Vanderpool's chances. Nard is an evil genius. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke

 

I would add that of 15 world titles fights for monzon all were wins,ten were stoppages,and his 5 points decisions wins were unanimous,cant get much more dominant...He also rematched benvenuti,griffith,briscoe and valdez and beat them all...(note these four fighters he rematched were also four of his very best opponents,three were world middle champs and all were great fighters.)
Hagler had 15 world title fights,lost one and drew one,with one unanimous points win,one split decision loss and 12 stoppage wins....
Maybe someone could do the the same for nard by way of comparison?
I know he lost three world middleweight title fights and drew one,but also had plenty of wins .....

 

...and only THREE were in his home country. Great stuff. :good

 

Definetely an elite fighter, but yes, overrated by many. If you study his resume, its not as great as you first think.

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He was a great fighter. I rate him Top 5 middle because of his title reign alone. I mean, it can't have been easy getting motivated for some of those opponents.