Bernard Hopkins or James Toney...who ranks higher All-Time???

Consistency goes to Hopkins, but longevity goes to Toney, imo.

 

I know.
I really like Joe but the nuthuggers on here really make me wish Joe would get pummeled
All too sad really that the delusionment of fans can have such a great influence on potential fans
It's no matter because both arent doing **** after the fight, win or lose

 

Toney.

 

Both are all time defensive masters. Both were beat in their younger years by RJJ. Both are world champs. Hops is linear at 2 weights and considering the age where he captured the LHW and Toney's steroid busts I have to go with Hops.

 

Toney beat guys that would have solid chances at beating b-hop. Who has b-hop beaten that would give james toney hell? tito, oscar, a junior middleweight version of a defensive fighter like winky, please.

Antonio Tarver is the one guy that hopkins beat that would be capable of beating jt. Lets see, toney beat nunn, mcallum, jirov, prince charles williams, iran barkley. I think its clear as day whos better.

 

Toney would be a huge favorite for me against Tarver.

 

On top of that, tiberi is the only robbery win he has. The first two Mccallum fights were very close, most agree toney won the draw and i have heard mixed opinions on the rematch. Both fights were competitve. James Toney beat reggie johnson, close fight yes, but a clear win. Toney on the other hand has screwjob losses to griffin and a top 5 heavyweight like sam peter.

James Toney beat Sam Peter and Jirov, i would have loved to see b-hop go this far in weight.

How is toney the what could have been, cuz he didnt fight the hbo posterboys, oscar and tito.

 

James Toney.
Look at who he fought through the divisions....and look who Hopkins fought. All losses, wins, close shaves, standard of opposition accounted for.....James Toney has to rank higher that Hopkins.

 

The only thing I can think of Hopkins possibly having over Toney is the fact that he was a unified champion.... which he achieved this by beating Felix Trinidad. I almost chuckle to myself when I think about how bad Toney would make Trinidad look, as well as stop him a lot earlier than Hops.

 

You want a comeback for the word precisely???

Ummm, sure.

Lets analyse these two great fighters shall we.

Toney has wins over Sosa, Nunn, Mccallum, Barkley, Jirov, Holyfield, Ruiz (kinda) and Peter (arguably the first time), etc.

Hopkins has wins over Johnson, Echols, Vanderpool, Jackson, Tito, Tarver, Wright, Oscar, Joppy, Taylor (arguably...as I have said before, history will be kind to this fight for Bernard..much as Hagler gets credit by many for Leonard), Holmes, etc.

Toney won titles in MW, SMW and CW...never held more than one belt at one time.

Hopkins unified the MW titles and set the record for title defenses.

Toney tho, has been on the good side of quite a few close, contested decisions....more often than not (Peter). Tiberi being the most obvious.

Hopkins on the other hand has been on the wrong side of the same type of decisions....Mercado, Taylor x2...other than those, Hopkins wins have all been obvious...going to the point of Hopkins being more steady and consistant.

On common opponents, Hopkins has also far outperformed Toney. Vs Roy being obviously the common denominator (tho losing to Jones is hardly a problem).

Also, Toney has been caught using "performance enhancers" on two different occasions...also never had the required dedication to keep himself at a peek, prime weight. Leading to his lackluster stay at HW.

Which leads to the brainsurgeons saying Hopkins ducked a fight with Toney.....Toney was already moving up in weight (losing dedication and eating his way north) in 1993, while Hopkins in 1993 was still fighting for his first title (didnt win his first until 95). Doesnt make any sense....

And again speaking to the people picking Toney. You give credit for Toney moving up in weight....yet knock Hopkins for beating ATGs who moved up in weight as well. So which is it? Hopkins gets no credit for beating people that were doing the same thing that Toney did to get most of his credit. Hypocritical if you ask me.

On a H2H basis, I will definately say Toney could be argued...but its a close call no matter how ya look at it...and even if you do feel its James...there is NO WAY NO HOW that erases the disparities in other areas.

So....how was that for an answer to your....

...comment.

:good

 

Hopkins because he never cheated and took drugs

 

I agree that Hopkins was the greater fighter, but I think it's pretty clear that Toney has the better wins resume.

I mean, you mention someone like Vanderpool for Hopkins and don't even mention someone like Reggie Johnson that Toney beat (it was a draw in my eyes but most consider it a win.) IMO, Toney also beat Griffin in their rematch (I think most think he won both Griffin fights, but I felt the first one was a draw).

I think McCallum, Nunn and Johnson are better fighters than anyone Hopkins has beat. Obviously Oscar, Tito and Wright are better than Johnson and Nunn, but not in the divisions they were fighting Hopkins in.

If you're mentioning guys like Echols I suppose you can throw in the Prince Charles Williamses in as well as part of Toney's resume. (I'm thinking you were't out to make an exhaustive list of either fighter, as I know you know all this, but it just seemed a little biased Hopkins' way).

Basically what makes Hopkins greater is he had no Tiberi or Thadzi moments, and pretty much dominated every average fighter he fought, whereas Toney struggled with quite a few average fighters.