Bernard Hopkins or James Toney...who ranks higher All-Time???

No ****, I can't put Hopkins over Toney to begin with just on resume alone, this is a classic example of resume's not being looked at correctly.

Toney's got several prime, elite MW-SMW fighters as wins on his resume, Hopkins has none. Plus Toney has a prime, elite Cruiser as a win on his resume, then of course other odd ins like his HW work that does indeed count for something P4P.

Consistency is Hopkins only plus over Toney.

 

I disagree with the distance between them.

Jirov is a better win than any of Hopkins. I would have Hopkins slightly above, but not by a great deal.

Also the worlds number 1 LHW was not a good fighter when Hopkins beat him.

And Toney won belts and showed his ability in far more weight classes where as Hopkins was the bigger man nearly every time he entered the ring at MW.

So Hopkins but 60-70 places is nuts in my eyes.

 

Yes, but look at the competition difference. Forget big name superstars like DLH and Tito and look at McCallum and Nunn, prime elite MW's.

Arguably were his wins also, one of them definitley was a Toney win thaty didn't go his way.

I'd like to see Hopkins, Calzaghe or Monzon/Hagler move up there and play with Vassily Jirov in a war like that and come out victorious.

I'd take Jirov easily over all 4 of those guys.

Look at Monzon's competition compared to Hopkins'. Hopkins competition is good, especially Jones, which he didn't win, nor did Toney and nor would Monzon.

He lost twice to Jermain Taylor, embarassing, then he moved up and knocked off a half dead, horribly overrated division hostage holder who was nearly as old as he was.

Wasn't like moving up and facing a 90's Montell Griffin, sorry.

You're overrating Hopkins and giving Toney no credit for anything.

 

There is a reason the Ruiz decision was reversed. Toney was roided up. IMO the fact that he got caught twice and hasn't fought since then puts his entire career into question. Every fighter knows that he has to pee after every fight. He would not have taken the roids unless he thought he could get away with it which means that he probably had gotten away with it plenty of times.

I would venture to guess that he was roided for the fight with Jirov and just about every fight at heavy.

 

Nunn, McCallum and what should have been 1 over Griffin are bigger wins than anything on Hopkins resume in addition to Jirov.

So basically you are rating on consistency, which isn't enough to put him above Toney anyway.

 

I agree. If Toney had no loses, in his prime bar the Jones one, and didnt have any dodgy descions going his way then he would be far and away a head.

I would say they are pretty much even. With Toney being far more talented.

 

H2H, I think Toney beats him. Bernard has to do inside work to win and he won't be beating Toney on the inside, Toney's one of the best in fighter's I've ever seen, also a great counter puncher, his timing is just as good if not better than Bernard's.

Only thing that hurts him is his mobility is quite horrible, Bernard's going to steal some rounds off of him because of this.

Probably 8-4 Toney.

 

How can some rate Hopkins so much higher then Toney for me the main thing when ranking people is their resume and Toney had some huge wins like Nunn, Barkley, McCallum, Jirov, Griffin (that was a robbery) and even though he was old and past his prime his performance against Holyfield was something special.

What great wins does Hopkins have? Oscar, Trinidad and Tarver. Oscar achieved little to nothing at 160lbs he is really 0-2 at that weight, Trinidad is a good win but not a great win he only looked good against Joppy (who is decent) at 160. And Tarver claim to fame was beating up an old man. I give Hokins a lot of credit for his longevity and consistency but his resume cannot be compared to Toney's and has not looked as good in his important wins beside Trinidad where he looked special. 60-70 spots is something I cannot even comprehend this is Hopkins were talking about not Greb.

 

Toney, end this ****ing thread. While Toney was tussling with the big boys fighting EVERYBODY. Bhop was just defending his middleweight titles. You guys are worthless.

 

Yes but there is a big difference between 40 and 100 or 1 and 60.

You still have not presented a case for that difference other than saying you think Toney's wins may be tainted and that you feel that Hopkins is better.

No I am not sure, you can never be sure. However, you have to take them at face value in my opinion unless it was proven otherwise, I am sure like any other athlete he was checked pretty consistantly throughout this carrer.

 

HBO had Jirov up on Toney in the 12th...classic pure hatred...****ing funny ****

 

I don't see why we should have to take them at face value. Toney was caught not once but twice. IMO he should not even be rated or allowed into the HOF for that.