Bernard Hopkins or James Toney...who ranks higher All-Time???

Toney was obviously tested throughout his carrer, was caught on roids only at HW. Where he was having to seriously bulk up.

But hell if you dont count Toney's wins, then Hopkins by default is a higher ATG.

 

Toney is somewhere in the 50's-60's, legitimately. Hopkins in the 70's IMO.

I don't rate them entirely far apart, as they shouldn't be.

For further examination, I have Calzaghe somewhere in the 90's right now and Mayweather in the 80's.

 

Hopkins does.

1.Undisputed Middleweight Champion for 10 years with 20 title defenses
2.Won the Light Heavyweight championship in his 40's.
3.Knocked out trinidad & de la hoya when nobody ever did to neither fighter.
4.He knocked out (TKO) Glen Johnson in 97 when nobody else did.
5.He was floored 2 times against segundo mercado in their first fight (PRIME HOPKINS) and now that he's old he hasnt been able to be knocked down which proves hopkins's amazing chin.

His Hall of fame spot is secure with all those accomplishments (except the last 2).

Toney?

1.won the IBF middleweight championship, only defend it a couple of times.
2. moved up to super middleweight and beat iran barkley for the ibf SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT title, and knocked him out, defended it 2-3 times until loosing to roy jones.
3. in light heavyweight he lost to montell griffin 2 times, and loosing the WBU 175lbs to Drake Thadzi after then moving up to cruiser weight.
4. then in cruiserweight he won the vacant ibo cruiserweight and then getting the iba super cruiserweight title, then beating jirov for the ibf cruiserweight title.
5. in heavyweight his biggest fight was against an old aging holyfield it was toney's first fight at heavy, he beat holyfield. after that he won little meaning belts (IBA, WBC CONTINENTAL, IBH).


HOPKINS by a huge mark.

 

Mayweather is in the 50s ..................... You dont go undefeated in 5 different weight classes fighting maybe not the other ATG but championship level fighters who were ALL title holders at one point or another and be in the 70s. A big difference fighting contenders for YOUR title a la Calzaghe did for 17 fights and going and fighting for other peoples titles in higher weight classes.

 

Bernard Hopkins, because of two reasons:

1) Longevity

2) Toney had a terrible part of his career between 1995 and 2003.

 

The fight was a NC and Toney was on roids. That can't count as a legit win.

Ray Robinson would get manraped by a heavyweight also...But he's still much higher in ATG lists than Toney.

 

Floyd's never beaten a true elite fighter at any of these weight classes however. 80's.

Close fights with Castillo are a negative, trust me. One of those is a definite loss that went his way, had it gone the right way and more people realise the instance, it puts many things in question on his competition.

 

I remember when the name Toney was only mentioned in where was he, before jerov....He was considered a joke, and folks was asking if he was fighting in Lubbock, Texas.

 

Hopkins and easy. When did Toney ever clear out a division? It is not even close.

 

james toney, old man river got his ass kicked by little jermain.

 

James Toney is just way to bad ass :smoke

 

Like you said he was tested throughout his career. he knew he would be tested in these 2 fights. No way he would take the chance unless he thought that he knew a way to beat the test which for me raised the question about how many times he did get away with it. Hell if he had only been caught once I'd say he only did it once but getting caught twice is really bad. For me it puts a question mark on his entire career especially the fights at Cruiser and Heavy.