Bernard Hopkins - Roy Jones Jr. Who is better All Time.

You see Sues, I wanted to keep the debate clear of comparing Hagler comp to Hopkins comp because it means nothing to the debate, and it's infact a matter for another thread.

I have to take your word about being biased and I also want to remove it from the debate.

You've also admitted that Roy's achievements are greater, albeit marginally.

So here's the point we disagree on:

1. Comp vs achievement: You cannot admit superior achievement without admitting that the level of competition. Why? Because in boxing, the magnitude of an achievement is directly proportional to the level of comp. So, Cotto has achieved more than Hatton because he fought and beat "better" comp than Hatton period.

2. Bigger vs better: my argument still stands there. A big guy will beat a small guy (ceteris paribus). But if a smaller guy succeeds then he should get more credit. That means that if Cotto beats Ouma then he get more credit that if he beats Pacman.
And of course, this is not a rule...

3. Next I wanted to break down and compare their comp (but I don't have time today). But compare Joppy-Tarver, Tito-Toney, Oscar-Hopkins, Tarver-Johnson, Wringht-Mcullum, Brown-Tate/Hill...which are fighters that Hopkins-Jones beat. On top of my head, I would go with..Tarver, Toney, Oscar, Johnson, Mcullum and Brown...thus giving Jones 4-2. But again, this is top of my head.

I have to go and I'll check this thread tomorrow to see what you think, especially with "3."

 

Don't forget about Roy's thrashing of Clinton Woods, either. Jones comp is clearly better, especially when one considers Hopkins and Roy both started fighting at the same weight.

 

Actually Jones started at 154 wheres Hopkins is at 175. :hey