Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

Burley ,Chase stop him,Wade,Hogue dec. One white guyha,ha,ha,ha

 

This guy can be quoted as saying Hopkins would be a lower tier journeyman in the 30's, and he wont deny it when he sees this. He also believes in God

 

Thanks, all I need to know.

 

What did Arcel and Futch say about Hopkins? There valuation of him means little here.

We do have footage of him, against a bigger guy and a big puncher. And Burley looks terrific.

I think assuming there is some kind of modern bias or whatnot or that Burley is being underrated here is not on. The reverse is just as true.

This could go either way.

 

I expect Hopkins to be a little over 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier. And that's not the best analogy unless you expect us to pick Shorty Hogue over Hopkins as well.

 

I should of put a good amount of film . Modern bias no I have not suggested that and yes I personally do feel burley is being a little underrated here in this match up but then that is my opinion and of course others will see it differently which is great as if we all thought the same this place would be pretty dull . But for me burley wins this by ud in a competitive fight and at times not a overly exciting one

 

A little too much credit going to Burley for facing heavier opponents. He didn't beat many good ones who were that much heavier.

Those who believe Hopkins brings nothing to the table I'm afraid are underselling him, or overrating Burley. Regardless of size, Hopkins is a savvy technician in his own right.

I would happily take Hopkins over a 1944 Moore, yes. Are we going to pretend Hopkins isn't an excellent fighter or that excellent fighters were not able to get to Moore?

1951 version, that's a different story. Moore was a comfortably large, experienced light heavyweight around that time, capable of dominating Johnson & Maxim, as well as several good heavyweights. Hopkins would be outgunned.

But of course there would be a version of Hopkins able to take a lighter, more reckless Moore, or an even smaller Burley.

From an ability perspective, Hopkins would have fit right in with the Murderer's Row in the same way as Marvin Hagler or Dick Tiger. He might even come out the best of the bunch.

 

I don't know that he looked terrific? Balanced, nice judge of distance, good placement of shots, decent speed, and he never got tagged. You can't get overwhelmed by the film though.

 

10 lbs heavier? How so? BHop's prime fight weight was between 157 and 160 pounds. Burley's was roughly around 155. That's not much and matters little considering Burley's success over bigger guys.

 

Pretty much sums it up for me. I haven't heard any compelling arguments for Hopkins beating Burley. He has no advantages that I can see or that anyone has brought into this discussion. None.

 

Burley's style is all wrong for BHop. Charley would beat him as easily as he did Moore. Hopkins would do better against the pressure fighters who allow him to utilize his defensive and counterpunching gifts. He would do well against guys like Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, Stanley Ketchel, Mickey Walker, Jake LaMotta and Marcel Cerdan.

Burley, Carlos Monzon, Holman Williams, Teddy Yarosz, Billy Soose, Mike Gibbons and guys like that give him much more of a problem.

 

Charles beat Burley at middleweight. Was that version of Charles better than Hopkins? Would Hopkins not be able to replicate the results of say, Lloyd Marshall or Kid Tunero against Charles?

Because Burley beat a younger Moore is poor reasoning in my opinion. I could definitely imagine Hopkins fighting defensively to decision the Moore of '44.

Are we saying Hopkins would come out bottom-of-the-pile if he mixed it up with Moore, Burley, Booker, Bivins, Charles, Marshall, Williams, Wade, Lytell, Chase, Kid or The Hogues in the '40s?

I think not. I should imagine he'd come out very favourably, losing a fair few but more than holding his own. Hopkins at his best was easily capable of beating any of the above (Charles and Moore as their middleweight incarnations) and to say otherwise is a bit nostalgic.

 

Who did Hopkins ever beat?

 

In my opinion? Considerably. By a mile.

I doubt it. I have watched his entire career and he's shown me nothing that would indicate that he was as good a fighter as Marshall. He fought in a comparatively laughable division.

Really? Beating down a 72-fight veteran like Archie Moore, who has the weight advantage btw, knocking him down 4 times and almost stopping him shouldn't factor into this debate? You consider that "poor reasoning"? You might wanna look at your own reasoning here, cuz it's kinda odd

What victories on Hopkins' resume make you believe that he would have a shot at beating the 59-8 (46 KOs) Archie Moore who fought Burley? Maybe I'm shortsighted, but I see absolutely nothing on his ledger that would support such a claim.

That is precisely what I am saying. He could beat the Hogues and possibly Wade. That's about it. The others were more seasoned against FAR better opposition. Hopkins has nothing to show them that they haven't seen a thousand times. He was a skilled fighter in a comparatively sad division. To compare him to those guys is silly to me. BHop ruled for as long as he did because the MW division was a sad shell of its former glory. Anyone who thinks he rules for over a decade and with 20-plus title defenses in any other era is delusional.

He would be competitive to a degree. But he definitely comes up short. Just my 2 cents

 

Who did Bob Foster beat?

It seems clear that a fighter as dominating and clinical as Hopkins or Foster, even if their opponents were weak, would at the very least be competitive in tougher eras. Likewise, they should be in with a substantial chance of winning should they be pitched against a fellow great who's a bit smaller.

On that note - Hopkins was bigger than Burley by a decent margin. It is less due to weight and more about stature and room for growth; Hopkins was a lean six feet and one inch, shredding himself to make the middleweight limit, and was more comfortable at around 165lbs, as evidenced by his pre-championship days and now his latest exploits. Burley was just smaller.