Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

Hopkins early on points.

 

It would be remiss not to mention the same thing for Hopkins though, who basically let guys like Taylor, Dawson and Calzaghe outhustle him without taking the chances needed to maybe turn things his way.

Yes I know he arguably won the Taylor and Calzaghe fights but hey, Hagler arguably won the Leonard fight too and in all truth comfortably outpointed Duran.

 

Using the Dawson fight against him

 

I don't care how old he is, that was yet another instance of Hopkins failing to take chances when he needed to. It's more a critique of his mentality than his physical state.

It's not like Dawson is some monster either. Had he actually gone for a knockout, he may have actually claimed Dawson's pea heart.

 

Well that's 1 of the most ridiculous points made on the Classic and that's saying something

 

That is saying something considering some of the doozies you have come out with PP.

 

You can do that on most fighters. Like:

"And when exactly did this man-killer version of Hagler exist at middleweight? Against Duran, Roldan and Mugabi?"

Neither man ever beat a great MW, but they beat what was in front of them most of the time and did it well.

Not much to choose between them really. Both accomplished technicians with some flaws, both goood strength and power, both great heart, stamina, consistency and workrate. Where they differ is that Hopkins is a bit bigger and, imo, the tactically superior fighter. I think that would make the difference here.

 

Yeah. Jesus Christ.

Hopkins was close to 15 years older then than Hagler was when he lost to a past prime WW coming off a 3 year lay-off.

The nonsense people come up with here.

 

Here's another difference between them...Hagler's pre-title opposition was better than Hopkins' title competition. And he basically cleaned out his division before winning the title :good

 

You are dead on about Hagler`s run to the title. He fought and beat averyone !!! Fought the beasts of Philly in Philly !

 

The Dawson fight isn`t that meaningful in that Hopkins was much older and not in his prime weight class either, however... The southpaw stance did give Ex some problems. He had a tough time, first time out with Robert Allen. Also at middle in the first fight with Mercado, even getting dropped twice in that bout. I think Hagler brings much more to the table than these two fighters... Keep in mind, that Hagler has really only one legit loss on his ledger, The `Worm`, first bout. He got jobbed against `Boogaloo`, outright screwed against Antuofermo, and even an old Hagler wasn`t treated fairly on the scorecards against SRL. So the reality is that after Monroe, NOONE beat Hagler, (SRL ?) and if you throw in the enitre middleweight division that Hagler cleaned up on his rise to the tielt, and he was ducked for two years wating for a shot. I don`t see a prime Hopkins beating Hagler, who never lost or ahd anyone clsoe to beat him in his prime. At 160 Hagler beats him...I love Ex, but he also had some difficulties at middle too. Mercado, Allen (first time) Taylor, Jones ...

 

You may want to check out the 20 or so southpaws he dominated Wayne.

If you were going to write a book on 'how to write a southpaw' you'd reference Hopkins constantly.

 

Not sure about that, but I do know that he lost against two of them, and neither were RJJ.:good

Anyhow, that's comparing records/achievements and I was comparing abilities. In my eyes, Hagler isn't far ahead of Hopkins in any area ability-wise, but I do think Hopkins have a clear advantage in the tactical department. Not a knock on Hagler, though, since B-hop is ahead of almost anyone in that regard.

 

True, but please tell me your not lumping Hagler in with `those ordinary` southpaws ? ? ... Plus, if Allen was able to trouble Hopkins first time out, and Mercado drop him twice. I dare think that a rock solid, prime Hagler does much better than you realize. As I stated, noone came close to beating Hagler for a very extended period, after the Monroe fight. Never dropped, or seriously challenged. Where at middle Hopkins had just enough issues to lead me to belive that Hagler would get to him. Lest we forget that Taylor beat him twice, as did Jones and Mercado hung a draw on him as well.

 

Very accurate post. look I am saying it`s a damn close fight. To be honest, i almost didn`t post on this at all, I love Hopkins and his old school way of getting his business done. i just think that the Hagler that was virtually ignored while trying to get a shot, the hungry Hagler who wouldn`t shake hands with ANY opponent. That Hagler has a little too much juice for Ex. And I PROMISE you that Ex would not try any prefight instigating tactics with Hagler and he sure as **** wouldn`t intimidate him either. Hagler would look him him dead in the eye and dare him to bring it... Again good southpaws gave Ex some trouble. Hagler was a very good southpaw...And painfully reminding people that Hopkins had losses to, Jones Taylor twice and a draw with Mercado. Last time I checked, Halger never lost at middle (after the Worm ) until SRL, and that was controversial ...