Bernard Hopkins vs Sugar Ray Robinson

Based on what?

 

I would like to hear more opinions on this match. More contributions please.

 

I think that Robinson at his very best would beat Hopkins at 160, but at 160 he wasnt at his best much consistantly.

I'd favour Hopkins to win 3/5.

 

You could argue this one either way to be honest...I think Nard's quite considerable size advantage could be the breaker but in any case there is no way he deals with Robinson easily or vice versa.

Hops has a habit of being a just enough kind of fighter and the way he was easily handled by a lame Roy makes me think the handspeed of Robinson would definitely cause him problems. Roy is faster than a middleweight Robinson but Ray certainly is no slouch in the handspeed department.

 

people vastly overrate SRR as a Middleweight here at ESB

the next thing you know people here will say SRR beats Joe Calzaghe at 168

 

His record speaks for itself. As does the film of him at the weight.

H2H he is still one of the best fighters at middleweight ever...Not quite as good as would probably be a welter but still very good.

I tend to think Hopkins is the overrated one. His level of opposition at middle cant hold a candle to Robinson's.

 

Well SRR was obviously the best p4p ever - but he was certainly at his best at WW, NOT at MW. I think Hopkins was just too much at MW for him. Hopkins made MW all those years because he constantly worked out and really worked to cut that weight. I think he has too much of a combination of size/speed/strength/skill. I think he'd get the UD at MW and higher. Certainly not a bash on Robinson though.. damn he was incredible, but give Hopkins his due credit here...

 

All of these fantasy posts about fighters from the past fighting fighters from now are at specific weights are REALLY FLAWED.

Here's why. Back in the time of SRR, fighters had same day weigh in and fighters now weigh in almost a day and half before a fight. When Robinson walked into the ring at middleweight, he weighed anywhere from 156-162 (163 tops). Hopkins walks into the ring around 170-172. If you time warped Hopkins back to the time SRR, he NEVER would have been a middleweight. NEVER. If you time warp SRR to modern era, he never would have fought at middleweight. Because he could have stayed his whole career at welterweight. In fact he probably would have stayed at lightweight for a much longer period of his career if he was allowed to weigh in 32 hours before a fight. Middleweights, welterweights, lights (all the lower weight classes) now are definately bigger today because they don't have to weigh in right before a fight. A better argument would be who would win H2H between a prime Hopkins vs. Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Billy Conn or Sam Langsford. All of those guys would have been middleweights for much of their careers if if they could weigh in a day and half before a fight.

 

Robinson didn't move up because of difficulties making weight, he moved up because he wanted to get the big fights. He routinely weighed in around the WW limit for his MW bouts.

 

If Hopkins couldn't beat Roy Jones Jr. at 160, he would not even touch Robinson.

 

No Robinson moved up to middleweight because he couldn't make the welterweight limit. That's a known fact. Around the time he fought Kid Gavilan at welterweight, he was having real issues making the welterweight limit. SRR even went on record stating he was having difficulty making the WW limit. He never weighed in at the welterweight limit for his middleweight fights. He weighed on fight night at between 156-162 (basically the light middleweight limit).

What I'm trying to say is that Hopkins is a much larger fighter than SRR is accustomed to fighting because of the difference in eras. The only fighter SRR fought near the size of Hopkins (on fight night not weigh in) was Joey Maxim. SRR at his prime was the size of a lightweight in this era and SRR in his middleweight period was the size of a welterweight in this era. He was never really a middleweight by today's standards.

 

I dont know about that man.

Ive read other sources that have him saying he was looking for bigger fights at welter after basically beating all the big names there.

After he beat Villemain for for a version of the middleweight title, he went back down to welter to defend his title once more, before moving up to middle for good. A weight that he easily made right up until his last fight when he was 44.

This was well in his late 20's by that stage. He had been the welter champ for over 4 years. It was always my understanding that the weight wasnt an issue at the time he moved up..but might well have been if he had stayed there longer.

 

This was done in the Classic Forum a while back, and I bring this up because posters dpw417 and Ted Spoon had the best debate I've ever read on this site. Just amazing posts from both on the topic. They each had multiple posts, all of them quite long, but if you want a very detailed breakdown of the fight from both sides, it's worth the read.

This is the link to the page where both summed up their arguments www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105663&page=5

Again, really worth the read. My pick for this fight, each man at their best at 160, is Robinson by close decision, and dpw417 gave the reasons why better than I could.

 

Hopkins needs to put on his custodian outfit, and go to Canastota, and ask for a mop, and if he is lucky, and wearing his rabbit's foot, maybe the Manager will let him mop up Robinson's wing.

 

Hopkins and Jones fought a close fight. I don't know why this has come down as a whitewash. Roy beat Hopkins, but not "easily" at all.