Bernard The Executioner Hopkins vs Canelo Alvarez, 160 lbs, Both Prime.

I was a bit too quick there, was probably thinking of the third Allen fight or something around that time. I'd probably define the Holmes and Trinidad fights as being around the end of his prime, when he probably started to slow down a bit but not enough yet to be seen as being past his prime.

But Holmes was a rangy southpaw from memory and not an opponent that makes for a very high paced fight. I think the Echols rematch just a year earlier is a more representative version of prime Hopkins.

Against DLH in 2004, Hopkins definitely had transformed into more of a slow paced counter puncher. I think the Hopkins vs Johnson or even in the Mercado rematch would have stopped DLH quicker and in more dominant fashion.

 

And I gave you a clear example of Canelo exceeding Hopkin's output against an easier opponent than Golovkin.

Ergo: your notion of Canelo outworking Hopkins being ridiculous, is de facto proven wrong.

 

As for this particular match-up, I can't really say. I think Canelo has improved in every single fight over the last few years and he proved me wrong against first Jacobs and then Kova, He has become more assertive with a stronger jab, but still kept his excellent counter punching.

He is also strong as hell, so Hopkins mauling tactics wouldn't automatically pay dividends. This could be a close fight, with judges and fans split over whether Hopkin's activity and physical approach or Canelo's clean punching wins the day. I don't see a KO in either direction.

 

So you're hanging your hat on a fight that stylistically could not be further away from how Hopkins fought, and comparing it to a performance from a past prime fighter?
When Alvarez faced Lara, Mayweather, Trout, it resulted in a loss and disputed decisions, but he deals with Hopkins, does he?
That's intellectually dishonest. Canelo simply does not have the engine to match the Hopkins that fought Johnson.

 

When you're sucking down over 800 punches yourself, it becomes hard to be able to return fire, and yet Canelo did, against a much bigger hitter than Borenard.

So you're using a drained 154 version of Canelo against fighters that actively tried not to engage, to a 160 version of Canelo - when we're talking about 160lbs? That's intellectually dishonest.

Unprovable opinion. What IS provable, however, is that Canelo HAS been able to exceed Hopkins' punch output in the past. Your hyperbole is hereby shot in the head and buried.

 

I am a bit surprised. To me Canelo just never looked like particularly busy fighter. I do not think this would be a factor.

 

The more you respond, the more I'm convinced you actually have no concept of styles. Hopkins would not present the same counter punching opportunities as Golovkin. Hence why I bring up Lara, Mayweather and Trout (or Jacobs and Kovalev, if you'd like).

If it is harder for Canelo to return fire against 800 punches, why did his output drop when Jacobs only showed him 600? Did you know you could find fights of Borenard in his 40's where he improves on Canelo's number in that fight, such that even if you were to add Canelo's best round, he would still come up short?

I don't believe you actually grasp what Alvarez' main strengths are.

You just described what Hopkins would do to Canelo. Hopkins has him on both fronts here: Alvarez would not be able to match his output and is not quick enough when Hopkins chooses to disengage.

Sure, I'll grant Canelo might have been drained at 154- just as Hopkins was when he was approaching 40 years old in a weight he'd been in for over a decade.

It's not hyperbole. You're supposed to examine and qualify outliers if you're to make an educated opinion- of which you haven't.

 

90s Hopkins had a higher workrate than Canelo

 

^ Your opinion, as is your entire post. The only facts are that Canelo was able to exceed Hopkins' output if he had to. Ergo, the idea of Canelo outworking Hopkins is not ridiculous.

 

90's Hopkins was exceptionally conditioned and had a high work-rate. See the Johnson fight.

Canelo picks his spots and likes to takes breathers to conserve energy. To me , he doesn't have the legs or endurance to deal with Hopkins.

 

Mac no, be reasonable everyone knows that everyone beats Canelo because we all hate him as a person and he has a few questionable “wins”

 

Hopkins could do better than Jacobs and get the win. Canelo would have to use the strategy of GGG II to make it hard on Hopkins.

 

career ending beating

 

Exactly.