Berto v Collazo ...

Hatton would get Hurt by that boy. Thank you for being the few that likes Berto. But remember people were saying the same about Cotto and look at the many fans he won over including myself

 

I was comparing Collazo-Hatton with Collazo-Berto after someone else brought it up and the point I made about it is that Hatton's style is more difficult for Collazo than Berto's. If the top-form Collazo showed up against Berto, I think he would win. Berto doesn't have Mosley's accuracy/timing. He has his speed, but he doesn't have his reflexes. He doesn't have his ring intelligence or experience either. I don't even need to mention the chins. Berto is a sloppy offensive fighter who's highly vulnerable to a solid counterpuncher, has a shaky chin (so he can't walk through Collazo's shots), and has bad defense. He's easy to time with shots and easy to control. Berto would be fighting Collazo's fight. Does he have a realistic chance of winning? Yes, Collazo's no Mayweather. He's no Quintana either.
But he's a solid lower B level counterpuncher who can expose Berto's flaws in a big way. I don't understand why you can't see how Berto would have serious trouble with Collazo's style and skill.

 

Berto isn't sloppy offensively. He throws crisp hard punches, and is very effective in combination. In recent fights, his uppercut is a thing of beauty, and he has worked well to the body as well. He throws quick straight punches from the outside, and has been using his jab to dictacte the pace more and more in recent bouts.

Mosley practically shut out Collazo, using his superior boxing ability and speed. Berto at welterweight has the same speed advantage over Collazo. He is also stronger then Collazo, and can use this when fighting on the inside. His chin has been pretty much proven. He got cocky against an overly defensive Rivera, but that is it. He has not shown any sign of weakness in his chin since then. Luis Collazo is not even remotely close to being a puncher regardless, so his chance of "exposing" berto in that regard is slim to none.

I think Collazo could potentially be a tricky fight for Berto at times yes. Technically though, he isn't fantastic as you are making out, and really has been over rated for his losing performance against Hatton. Look at the other performances in his career? What is there that makes him so impressive??

You say Berto is easy to time and easy to control, yet so far no one has come close to being able to do this. Much of your post here is based off pure speculation.

Berto will beat Collazo no question.

 

huki, I really hate to do this...cause your a damn good poster...but my god you are so off here its maddening.

What pray tell is "top form Collazo"? The best two fighters he has beaten were Rivera (a fight I was actually at....great fight btw) where he arguably lost and Gonzalez? Just wondering for future reference...

Berto has PHENOMINAL accuaracy actually. He landed over 60% of his power shots over 7 rounds...and in every one of his fights, his connect % has been fantastic. On top of that, he is a great counterpuncher. Not sure if you have even watched last nights fight, but he constantly countered Rodriguez over his jab with straight rights....which doesnt seem that amazing until you take into account that Miki is 3 inches taller and has a HUGE reach advantage.

Knock Berto for some things....but accuracy and timing, I am sorry, those cant be two of them.

Cant let ya slide on this one either...again, Berto is a DAMN FINE counterpuncher...a part of his game I have noticed that has gotten progressively better as his competition has turned the same. And watching the angles he throws some of his punches at (DID YOU EVEN SEE THAT UPPERCUT HE DROPPED RODRIGUEZ WITH???), I cant see how ANYONE can question his reflexes as well?

I wont argue this one. He too many times allows his opponent to dictate the spot in the ring the fight takes place. He has gotten better in this...but at times it can still be maddening (especially to his corner).

He got dropped by a fighter with above average power he didnt see coming on a shot that he didnt see coming. Got up, recovered and dominated the fight. What is the deal with his chin being bad???

A couple things off on this one.

First, his offense is wonderful....he is ULTRA fast, very accurate, attacks from every angle imaginable (even some like that uppercut from last night that you couldnt even imagine possible), attacks the body as well as he attacks the head, has great power, uses his jab well to set up his other punches and is a great finisher when he gets his opponent in trouble.

Second, his chin is just fine....you guys are comical with that ****. One KD to a fighter with good power, on a punch he didnt see and suddenly he is grade A china...even tho he hasnt been even HURT bad in any other fight he has been in....if he had such bad defense like you say, he wouldnt be undefeated still with that china chin and leaky defense.

Third, you said he cant take COLLAZO'S POWER???? WHAT??? What power??? His KO% is below 50!!!! He has no power?? He would have the LEAST amount of power of the last few fighters Andre has fought....are you ok huki??? Your smarter than that bro.

There is only one more problem with that statement...tho I agree that at times Berto can let his opponent control the real estate in the ring...Collazo is EVEN WORSE at it. He fights the opponents fight EVERY SINGLE TIME OUT! Only fight I have seen him CONTROL the pace and space (so to say) was vs Gonzalez...

Yes, Collazo is a good counterpuncher...but so is Berto....only Berto counters with POWER. Berto holds pretty much EVERY SINGLE advantage possible in this fight. Berto embarrasses him...stylisticly its a nightmare fight for Luis.

Again, huki, your a great poster (even tho we dont see eye to eye on MOST things, I still respect your opinions on things)...but you couldnt be more off on this stuff. I have an honest question for you...what was the last Berto fight you watched??? Because it seems you havent seen him in a long time with that breakdown???

:verysad

 

Great post mate, picking part a heavily inaccurate one. I honestly couldn't be bothered going to those lengths, i just feel like sometimes i am on repeat around here. Broke it down perfectly though.

Glad to see another poster on here, who can make their own opinons, and at least attempt to be objective.

You are a rare commodity on these boards as of late.

 

Collazo is nothing fantastic. But Berto isn't either and Collazo is the one with the style advantage here.

No one has timed/controlled Berto easily like Collazo would because Berto hasn't fought anybody close to that level yet. Estrada was his best opponent, but he's not comparable to Collazo in any way.. he's just a typical high C level Telefetura pressure fighter with bad defense.

I think Berto would get frustrated with Collazo's style early on and get even more sloppy than usual because of it. How is his offense sloppy? His offense isn't even close to as sloppy as his terrible defense, but it is sloppy. To start, his accuracy/timing is not very impressive. Compare the accuracy/timing of a prospect like Juanma to Berto and you'll see a big difference. Berto loads up too much on some powershots and makes it too easy for his opponent to see what's about to come at them. He doesn't feint. He often headhunts too much. He leaps inside with his punches and sometimes misses wildly when his opponent takes a step back, giving them a big opportunity to counter him with something huge while his hands are down, he hasn't moved out of range, and his head is a stationary target. His punches may look precise because of how much pop they have on them, but he misses big way too often and Collazo would make him pay for that in a big way.

Also, unlike Berto's other opponents with boxing styles, when Collazo has success counterpunching, he'll follow up with more punches. Berto is extremely easy to hit and he has no idea how to fight backwards. He panics a bit when he's overwhelmed by an opponent who lands a few consecutive punches on him.

How has Berto's chin been proven? He was slightly stunned at times against Estrada (who has average power) and just looking at him in the ring, I think it's pretty clear he has issues with being relaxed and is the type of fighter that will have chin issues. He doesn't see things exceptionally well either and runs into all sorts of punches. A Collazo punch that he doesn't see coming could hurt him bad. And even if it won't hurt him, he still won't be walking through Collazo's punches without worrying about getting hurt like Mosley could.

I'm not saying Collazo would beat Berto like it's a 95/5 matchup. I can see Berto catching him with something big and hurting him badly. I could see Collazo coming in rusty, looking faded and losing a decision. But I favor Collazo to beat Berto. If he shows up in the same shape as he did against Hatton, then I favor him fairly heavily. Berto looks "good" because he's been matched very well. His speed and pop is very impressive. His combinations look impressive. But a solid counterpuncher would make him look absolutely terrible.

 

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Lol I found this

 

I stopped reading after you said Berto's accuracy/timing is phenominal. No disrespect to you man, but it's not.. not even close. I watched the fight yesterday and anybody decent could land at a high connect rate against someone like Rodriguez. Look at Berto's last 5 fights and compare his accuracy/timing to that of fighters with real PHENOMINAL accuracy/timing. ****, compare it to fighters with just "very good" timing/accuracy.

I'll have more time to argue later, I have to go to dinner right now. Berto-Collazo wouldn't be a fight Collazo would dominate. But I think it would be a fight Collazo would win. I'll explain more if you want to talk about it later. But it's hard for us to argue when we disagree on such a (what I think) obvious fact, Berto's accuracy/timing is far from phenominal. And his offense is predictable. The guy doesn't even feint.

What do you think about Berto-Quintana? I see no way Berto makes it the distance. He would be completely outclassed and stopped.

 

:good

 

I absolutely disagree with every part of this post.

It is to the point though, where there is little use breaking this down. A lot of this debate is becoming subjective.

I'll wait for the fight to happen, and let my point be proved. If i'm wrong, i will be the first to admit it. Hopefully you can do the same should the situation arise.

 

Which fight did you watch that makes you question Berto's accuracy and timing? I've seen many of his recent fights and can't recall one in which he was inaccurate. Certainly, reflexes and accuracy are currently his bread and butter.

 

Damn who is that in your avatar :nut :good

 

Good test for Berto. I think he will be able to beat Collazo by decision though, although Collazo will give him some problems.

 

Any Berto fight where his opponent isn't just there as a punching bag, with absolute **** defense and no head movement.

This is the only Berto fight on youtube I could find that isn't edited to show the highlights of his offensive work. It's from a year ago against Cosme Rivera, the 2nd best fighter he's faced. Berto has improved since this fight, but not by much. He still has the same basic flaws as he did back then. I included the 6th round, because it shows a nice glimpse of Berto's future at the end of the round. The entire fight is on youtube though.

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Alright, hopefully the fight will come off. I favor Collazo only slightly, maybe 55/45. No result would really surprise me, especially because of how inactive Collazo has been. Berto-Quintana is a whole different story though. Quintana would destroy him.

How you guys see Berto's timing/accuracy as "phenominal" is beyond me.. but you're right, there's no point of arguing about it any longer.

What do you think about Berto-Quintana?

 

Collazo a brawler