Besides Ali, who could've beaten Listin in 60's?

Liston in top form would blow Frazier out.

 

yeah maybe but this would have happened in the late 60s. I would still pick liston though

 

Yes the later it is the better Frazier's chances.

 

Have to say that I don't fancy Frazier's chances that much either. Liston's was a better infighter than Foreman, I'd say, with sharper, more compact punches.

But you never know. Frazier could wear him down. Especially the late 60's Liston. Joe impressed me with how he stepped around Chuvalo, using his superior footwork and mobility to offset George's strength. I can see him doing something similar against an old Liston. But if Sonny catches him with one of those punches he smashed Patterson with...

 

Late 60's Liston Frazier would have a good show for sure.

Liston imo would have been stylistically as bad or worse for Frazier than Foreman. His punches were a lot more direct and basically just as powerful. He also had that jab and a much tighter technique. He was an extremely well schooled fighter.

 

If Ali hadn't come along, then Liston would have beaten Liston.

 

Yep.

 

A cliché without much substance I'd say. It could be so, but there's preciously little to show it. It's not like he went off the rails after the Ali fights. He went unbeaten for five and half years after Ali - winning 14 fights, all but one on KO. That's very impressive numbers for a fighter in his 30's with little prospect of getting the big fights ever again. Hardly a crash and burn.

I see no reason as to why he then would have crashed and burned if he actually had something - the HW title - to fight for.

 

Liston was definitely better technically. A better inside fighter, a more compact puncher. Better head movement and all around defense. Foreman was better at cutting off the ring, but that's it. And I don't think that would come into play here.

Better chin... Can't say for sure, but a guy who took William's best punches should be able to take Frazier's, so it's a bit of a moot point. Weaker? Perhaps, but strong enough. Joe won't push him around. The same with power. He has enough to flatten Joe if he lands his best shots.

Of course, the late 60's version will be worse off in terms of speed and stamina especially. If Liston manages to hold on to his crown until the late 60's, I can see a young and hungry Frazier taking it from him. I can also see the same Frazier walk into one of Liston's lethal uppercuts while ducking behind that ramrod jab in a similar fashion to how Sonny set up Patterson.

 

You are as transparent as freshly cleaned glass FD. You do everything possible to boost up guys like Frazier and Lyle as Frazier is the only "ATG" Foreman ever beat and Lyle bounced him up and down like a yoyo.

One day just for you i might do am extreme take on Foreman from a critics perspective, as you often do with fighters you see as a "threat".

 

Add stamina, peak Foreman gassed in more than one fight even to the extent of getting ko'd by Ali and dropped by Jimmy Young. Liston by contrast paced himself much better and was the much better fighter in the second half of fights.

Big Book of Boxing had Liston stopping Foreman in i think it was round 8 in their "Dream Fights" series. I agree.

 

Liston looks very good to me. The one thing he lacked was speed. But I don't see that being a big issue with any other guy than Clay/Ali around that time. It certainly wasn't an issue with one of the fastest HW of all time in Floyd.

 

I think his timing and excellent technique more than made up for any possible speed deficiency.

Ali is just a different class isn't he. I could not think of a worse opponent for Liston in history. Not even close.

I am very impressed with Liston.

 

It's not exactly rocket science is it? Is there anyone who wasn't a more compact puncher?