Besides Ali, who could've beaten Listin in 60's?

The only one beating liston outwith ali is possibly foremann. Liston is infact one of the most underrated.

If ali hadnt have shown up liston could well have ended up in a lot of peoples top 5 of all time heavyweights. Still think he should make peoples top ten. Head to head.

 

Please, Foreman fought next to nobody in his first 37 fights so he jolly well should have a massive KO %. Imagine Tyson fighting these poor souls.

 

Well, not until they started to get ludicrously big in comparison anyhow. Oh, how I'd love to see Liston vs Bowe. Won't predict a winner, just a great fight.

But, yeah, no other HW before or since had that speed and natural ability to make Liston look bad like that, I think. There are probably others that would beat him, but not like that.

 

I can't really decide if you're putting on an act or not.

 

Be interesting fights against the big boppers, for all of them for that matter.

On the size note is it just me or do most not realise Foreman's true dimensions?

He's seems to be seen as overwhelmingly big but when put up against others it's quite surprising.

Some sizes -

Foreman 6'3 1/2 and 217 1/2 pounds (Frazier fight, best victory)
Ali 6'3 and 215 1/2" (Foreman fight)
Holmes 6'3 and 212
Liston 6'1 and 215 (Patterson)

Foreman doesn't actually have much size over these, even Liston. Weight is basically a wash across the board and Listons small difference in height is offset by a huge wingspan.

 

Probably not yet, but he was on the way down.

 

Quarry would have had a chance in the very late sixties. Ditto Bonavena

 

I think Bonavena could have been particularly tough.

 

this

 

i see what did this piece of ****... deleted my answers lol you are pathetic poor frustrated guy... pathetic...silencing when anyone told you the ****ing truth

 

The only danger is Frazier circa 67-70.

He might stop Liston late on if he can't enforce his jab from the outset.

Tbh we don't even know if Ali could have maintained that pace for the full 15 rounds had Liston not threw his shoulder out.

 

No question Sonny wanted no part of a rematch with Machen carrying two healthy guns. Everybody who's seen Eddie's body shot ten count elimination of Nino Valdés knows what a deadly right Machen had when uninjured.

Eddie wanted a rematch with Liston in the worst way. With only a good left, he indicated it wasn't otherwise a particularly difficult bout for him, compared to later dealing with the speed of Big Cat Williams in their draw. ("In a way, he's harder to fight than Liston, because he has speed the other doesn't have. You can't walk around Cleveland like you can Liston." )

For me, it's not a question of who wins Machen-Liston II if both are healthy, but whether Eddie decisions Sonny or stops him. Machen had his number, they both knew it, and Liston wasn't about to find out what Eddie was like with that right hand fully healed. (Later, Sonny's left was likewise injured for Patterson I and Clay I, leaving all remaining potency for doing damage in his less heralded right, a deadly weapon nontheless. Having a compromised left didn't change those outcomes, but extant footage of Machen with a healthy right shows his injury against Liston was decisive, and Sonny knew it. That's why he wouldn't even rematch Eddie after Lewiston to rehabilitate his boxing reputation.)

Johnny Summerlin takes Liston III in a third pairing during 1955 over ten rounds, and possibly sweeps Sonny in a trifecta that year to go ahead 3-2 in a best of five series, but hypesthesia had shelved Summerlin by the 1960's.

Without Muhammad Ali, it's Eddie Machen who blocks Sonny Liston from ever being a prolific HW Champion for an extended time during the early and mid 1960's. Take away Ali and there is no dominant HW Champion between Marciano and Frazier, although Terrell generates the most successful defenses. Otherwise, it's a merry-go-round of transitional titleholders, and Machen makes Liston one of those transients.

 

, making top 30 or 40 he should be glad