***Best 15 middleweights H2H***

I don't see many Welterweight/Middleweights outmuscling Griffith, including Basilio. LMR was very strong and Griffith out muscles him.

 

I would say Tiger is the strongest man either has faced. That guy was bullish strong.

I do think, even if we assume Burley is as strong as Griffith, that Griffith would pressure and get inside, and do the better work inside.

 

Charles was 20 years old when he licked great Burley twice in a row. I think that should makes him a top 3 on every list (h2h). In a short middleweight career he also beaten Jorge Basora (who beat LaMotta) and former MW champion Yarosh (both were above 160). I think that if he stayed at MW he would be #1 All time and even beat SRR - if he decides to fight Ez. But I'm not so sure that charles could keep below 160 for long. But those wins against Burley make him my #1 h2h at middleweight.

 

I see Hopkins high on many lists...could he beat Monzon, Hagler, SRR, SRL, Charles and other greats?

 

Peak Basilio would have made Griffith his ***** at any weight.

 

I definitly agree with Burley exacting a toll on Griffith coming inside. I was thinking of the Archer fight and Burley will be landing much harder punches than Archer, but Griffith showed a good chin. I agree on Burley being good on the inside but Griffith is very impressive on the inside, one of the best I have seen at Welter/Middle. I will definitly need to re-watch the film of Burley soon.

I will need to re-watch the film but purely at Middleweight Tiger is probably the strongest boxer I have seen at that weight. Also a lot of strength can be down to balance, foot placement and angling (not fishing but creating angles.)

Smith to me looks strong but crude so Burley can create the illusion he is stronger by using the methods I listed above. Although I will need to re-watch the film to see if this is the case.

Fair enough. I feel I have addressed these points above.

One last thing, even if Burley is stronger I do still think Griffith has the upper hand in side, but chances are he could be stopped.

 

Never thought I'd say this, but I quite like your list, McG. Obviously Monzon is too high for me and Jones too low, but I like the high placement of SRR and Hopkins more.

 

I'm willing to admit that Monzon probably would have beaten Basilio quite handily.

 

Fair enough. I'm not comfortable to rate him without the film of him though. But nice interesting pick.

I think others would think 'yes'.

I definitely think he could beat anyone I ranked below him.

Don't talk yap.

Griffith was immensely strong and proved this with fellow freakishly strong Welterweight Luis Manuel Rodriguez by out-muscling him inside. He also out-muscled many a Middleweight.

I'm a big advocate of Basilio and think of him as one of the strongest fighters ever at Welterweight, I just can't see him out-muscling Griffith inside - i think they are both fairly even. However, if they engaged inside Basilio would have the upper hand and Griffith (if fighting Basilio) would have to use his more mobile boxing to triumph.

 

Not related to the above posts but I don't see Charles ranked as highly as he is by some head to head at middleweight. Obviously he has the wins over Burley, great wins although against a natural welterweight, but he was just 20 years old, lost a couple of fights at the weight and was beaten handily by Lloyd Marshall who wasn't much more than a super middleweight himself, a loss an improved Charles twice avenged later. In addition there is no footage of him at the weight.