Best 5 Boxers Since 1960 ?

Seems very reasonable. The top 3 are hard to argue against IMO, even if they could be swapped around internally. I would probably put Jones in there as well, but all in all it's a good list.

 

I disagree with you then. There is no way Ali ranks higher than Duran pound-for-pound; the distinction is very clear, in my mind.

I also don't extend special treatment to fighters i like or dislike like you suggested, and it would be appreciated if you credit me with a bit more objectivity in the future. Like I said, this is the first list of this type that I have compiled. Roy was a great fighter; perhaps he could usurp Mayweather's place in the list. At the end of the day, he was a tremendous pound-for-pound talent and I guess you could place him high if you give particular preferentiality to climbing through the divisional ladder. As it is, I am happy with my top ten and I estimate a place for Roy in the eleventh seed or thereabouts.

 

Could you then tell me how Floyd places above Roy? You seem to suggest that weight-jumping isn't a big factor in your rankings, therefore Mayweather's 5 weight titles shouldn't strongly factor in. So how exactly does he place higher considering he fought lesser competition and was less dominant/impressive?

 

I'm not sure Floyd places above Roy and I didn't say I didn't count weight-jumping. I am, however, dead-set that Roy isn't leagues above Floyd. What is that even supposed to mean?

Jones was green as a middleweight getting by on pure athletic ability. He showed flashes of his Olypmic pedigree, but was nowhere near the skill level of Mayweather while the latter was a super featherweight. He defeats a similarly green albeit good Bernard Hopkins for the IBF title, then grows into super middleweight, rounds out his style, and beats a weight-drained Toney. He then goes on to dominate the light heavyweight ranks which was very impressive. He forces himself into heavyweight to nab his fourth world title which was also impressive although he did it against John Ruiz-- a paper tiger.

It's spectacular work no matter how you spin it, but as far as I'm concerned, Floyd was just a little bit better pound-for-pound. He was basically the same fighter after 130 pounds fighting bigger and stronger opponents in every succeeding weight. He was scientifically building himself up, but the need was not urgent and he could have easily milked super featherweight for a long time. His body type was naturally smaller yet he achieved so much in a short stretch of time.

 

It means that Roy wouldn't be struggling with Hatton, Jesus Chavez, Castillo, etc level fighters the way Floyd did. Roy didn't have to adapt to opponents and fight boring fights(though he fought more cautiously at LHW), and Roy beat even his top opponents more convincgly as Floyd. The 130 pound version of Floyd came closest to Roy, though Roy at 168 was stil better.

No. Do you suppose Michael Vick could jump into the rankings right now on pure athletic ability? Jones's skill is far underrated by some. He was not textbook, that doesn't mean he wasn't incredibly skilled and smart.

I'd say he handled a younger, more offensive Hopkins better than any version of Floyd could've handled such a fighter.

Actually, he fought Toney directly off his 160 run. He jumped up into 168 against Toney. Do you honestly think he improved that much at 168 in one fight? I'd say he was pretty close to his prime if not in it by the end of his 160 run.

Marking the third weight class he'd shown dominance in, whereas Floyd jumps primarily for single fights nowadays.

Explain. Given the comparisons I gave in an above post, I don't see how you could argue any version of Floyd as good as Roy, given how they dealt with skilled opposition. The 135 and 140 Floyd was well suited to the weights, he just faced more skilled opposition and a difficult matchup in Castillo, therefore was made to look not as good. I will say though, that the version that faced Corrales and probably Hernandez at 130 looked almost as good as Roy.

I think he grew into the weights very well. He's rarely significantly outsized. In fact, the only times I remember that were in his 130 pound days against the likes of Corrales, Hernandez, and Pep.

 

That list was in 2002 don't forget, Jones may have moved up, i'm not sure.

 

Who were the best technicians since 1960?

 

In no particular order

Ali, Duran, Hagler, Jones Jr., Whitaker(interchangeable with Leonard)

 

RJJ likely moved up several spots, but he was somewhere around 35-40 on that list if I remember correctly, and the knockout losses to Tarver and Johnson probably held him back from moving up more than 10 spots. I agree with what RING Magazine (and what appears to be the majority of the posters on this thread) that Ali, Duran, Leonard, Whitaker, and Monzon are the top 5.

 

Mayweather had a boring style but it was nothing if not effective. You mention dominance, I think he's the best super featherweight in history. You may argue in favor of Roy in his respective weight class, but super middleweight doesn't have the same depth and character as super featherweight, and if you rank him as a light heavyweight, as I do, you have to put him below Charles at least.

Floyd Jr. put a clinic on Gatti, N'dou, Mitchell, and other lower-tier fighters, proving he's just as capable as Roy when Roy fought the so-and-so bums in his light heavyweight career. He was dwarfed by Castillo (in a fight he should have lost) as El Temible was quite obviously the bigger man. He would go on to post a very convincing win over Castillo in the same year, rendering a third encounter unnecessary.

Here, for a little perspective, allow me to submit some of the names Floyd's fought and then you tell me if they were at least collectively comparable to the set Roy has fought; you have names like Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Gerena, Carlos Hernandez, Luis Castillo, Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, and then Oscar De La Hoya at light middleweight. I think quantity has it over quality, in this case. It outstrips Jones' Ruiz, Hopkins, Toney, McCallum, and Hill.

 

Jones was dominant in 3 weight classes, Floyd just one. That was my point.

Difference is, nearer to Roy's prime(at MW and SMW) he was dominating higher quality fighters in similar fashion, more impressive by my estimation.

I didn't see him as dwarfed. Again, he seemed much the smaller man oddly enough only in his SFW bouts as I mentioned. Against Castillo, while probably not as large in stature, he was not dwarfed by any means.

Well this is not fair, and you should know it. You're submitting the names of guys like Gerena, Hernandez, Baldomir, Chavez, Judah, etc while not naming Roy's wins over guys like Tarver, Woods, Gonzalez(who was a better win than most of the guys I mentioned for Floyd in reality, given what he accomplished after losing badly to Roy), Griffin, Johnson, Sosa, Malinga, etc. All are on par with some of the second tier wins of Floyd. Difference is, Roy dealt with his top opposition(and a higher quality of top opposition at that) better than Floyd has, and just as well if not better with his second tier guys. He'd have dealt with a guy like Hatton or Chavez the way he did with Pazienza at his best.

 

It's hard to think of Roy as anything but a super middleweight or a light heavyweight fighter. That's my point. Floyd was a super featherweight. Floyd drew close to Castillo's weight because he had an A-plus team behind him, Floyd drew close to De La Hoya's weight because he had an A-plus team behind him, but in both of these fights he was the smaller man.

I would give you Tarver, if I thought Roy won that fight. I have not seen the fight in some years since I first saw it happen, and to be honest, I don't want to delve any deeper into this discussion and definitely not to the point of watching Jones-Tarver I again. Johnson, Sosa and Malinga are not worth mentioning. Griffin and Gonzalez were good, but kind of a reach. In the first place, I mentioned the latin fighters because I was impressed with their skills, whereas I assume you only mention Woods and Gonzalez because they were highly ranked.

As for Zab? Judah's never looked as 'super' as when he faced Mayweather. To start well and keep a steady pace like that for 6 rounds, well when have you ever seen him do that in recent memory? Zab is definitely head and shoulders above Baldomir as a fighter.

 

It seems like Whitaker, Duran, Leonard and Chavez have a good shout for that one as well. You have to give it to Naseem to even making that style work, although he's hardly text book material. Hagler seem very complete technical wise (and over all) to me.

 

Hm,
1. Duran
2. Jofre
3. Ali
4. Whitaker
5. Leonard

the last two are interchangeable and Carlos Monzon is also in the mix with them but you wanted five, right?