Best Black Heavies Of The 1890s?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rainer, Jun 25, 2019.



  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    I was hoping Mendoza was going to do this,but perhaps he will join in later.
    Who are your top ten black heavies of the decade 1890 -1900?
     
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  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Of course Peter Jackson, then probably Frank Childs and Bob Armstrong. Hank Griffin didn't have the strongest record in 1890s but he's also good candidate here.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think that any of them were among the top tier of contenders, with the obvious exception of Jackson, who was outstanding.
     
  4. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Jackson has one outstanding win,over Slavin.

    Childs trumps him imo Armstrongx 4 ,Klondike x3Baker,Butler,Conroy,Everett , and a draw with Klondike.
    I can't see Griffin here.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can't see it myself.

    Jackson was the outstanding contender for years, and Childs was never really in the very highest echelon.

    If Childs looks better, it is because he came along a few years later, when record keeping was better.
     
  6. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Outstanding, with one good win in that ten year period?
    Who did Jackson beat in those ten years ?That's the bottom line for me. Childs was fighting good opposition and beating most of them.
    I don't give credit for inactivity.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Godfrey, Cardiff, McAuliffe, Jem Smith, Ed Smith were all good contenders when Jackson beat them.

    The best guys that Childs beat were not all that to be honest.

    I have seen Armstrong mentioned as a possible title challenger, but he is usually seen as more of a Carlos Takam type.
     
  8. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    The problem is Jackson did not beat Godfrey,Cardiff, or McAuliffe in that decade.
    Ed Smith had beaten just who when Jackson beat him?
    Jem Smith had beaten nobody and was DSQ'd for wrestling ,Cardiff retired with a damaged arm and all these fights were two years prior to the time scale of the thread. As I said, I'm not giving marks for work done prior, or indeed after that decade.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    I'd say that his win over Slavin and draw with Corbett are more impressive than anything Childs accomplished though, so it depends on what you value more.
     
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  10. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    One win doesn't cut it for me.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Even if we completely disregard everything that he did in the previous decade, he established himself as the outstanding contender during the 90s, and that goes well beyond anything that Childs did.
     
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  12. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Does Childs even have one truly elite win?

    There would be a degree of interpretation there.
     
  13. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    You cannot be the outstanding contender if you only have one outstanding win in ten years thats my position.Jackson was clearly the better fighter but his time was over two years into that decade.
     
  14. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Okay lets look at Slavin as an elite win and see if its justified?
    Slavin was kod by Armstrong whom Childs beat 4 times out of 4 , 3 times by ko
    Slavin drew with Baker whom Childs beat by ko
    Slavin lost to Butler by Ko Childs beat Butler,by ko.
    So why is Slavin a better fighter than Childs?
    Childs has wins over
    Russell x3
    Armstrong x4
    Baker
    Butler
    Klondike
    Everett
    Conroy
    What are Slavin's wins?
    Kilrain and McAuliffe?
    Kilrain was 37 for their second fight.he hadn't won a fight for 5 1/2years, had been ko.d in 3 of his last 5 fights would have one more, lose it ,by koand retire.

    McAuliffe was 36 he would have 6 more fights and win just 1 of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  15. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Slavin reached a higher career summit than any of these men, who all beat him when he was on the slide.

    Many people saw Slavin as the outstanding challenger for Sullivan's title, before Jackson beat him.

    Nobody ever saw Armstrong, Butler, or Childs himself as a very compelling contender for the champions of their primes.

    Peter Jackson and Denver Ed Marin were avoided as contenders.

    Armstrong, Butler and Childs didn't get title shots, because the champion's didn't need to fight them.
     
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