Yes, I agree that when Tyson fought Lewis he was no longer Iron Mike. Could Lewis in his prime have controlled Iron Mike with the jab? That is hard to say. Both men had flaws in their personality, which became evident when they actually fought each other. Tyson had the style to beat Lewis, but whether he would do it is another matter. Even in his prime Tyson's style would deteriorate due to frustration as a fight continued to the final rounds. Lewis's strategy is obviously to survive the early rounds and wait for Tyson to start making mistakes. Tyson's job would be to launch a body attack to chop off Lewis's legs. Which strategy would prevail? Your guess is as good as mine.
Hopkins is the first guy that comes to mind for me. Right now on ESB Pavlik is getting a lot of flack, but not long ago consensus opinion said he had one of the best jabs in the business. For ages I've been saying that you beat Kelly Pavlik by neutralizing the jab. Neutralize the jab, and you'll diminish the right hand because the jab sets up the right.. Everyone focuses on BHop staying away from Pav's right hand, but that is a 2 or 3 step process, not a simple matter of moving to your right. Slip the jab, and then move right. If he tries to double it, slip, counter, move right. Hopkins was brilliant.
Yeah, I think I need to rethink that one a little I just thought in the 2nd fight with Morales, even though he arguabley lost, MAB did a great job of fighting backwards, staying out of range, slipping and moving, I don't know if that counts as neutralizing the jab, it was just what came to mind.
Nah, it sounds like a good call to me, it just wasn't an example that even crossed my mind. I'll need to re-watch that fight again, I've been meaning to watch some Barrera anyway, I think I may be guilty of forgetting/underrating what a good boxer he could be when he wanted to as compared to a good brawler, which he could certainly be when he had to.
I don't know why, but MAB and EM don't set my world alight, I actually watched JMM v Pac I for the first time last night, and I found that more entertaining than MAB/EM I. I can see myself becoming a fan of JMM, to comeback from 3KD in the first RD, and fight as well as he did, very impressive stuff. Other than his trilogy with Vasquez, can you recomend any other good JMM fights?
I would agree with Whitaker for the reason you stated and obviously because he was so damn good at slipping and countering or ducking out of range of the jab. In general, I would also argue that great jabbers are good at neutralizing great jabbers by default because their jab is usually straighter, faster, harder, and/or more effective. James Toney was also a great neutralizer of the jab when you were in his range.
Mate it was JMM's brother Rafael who had the trilogy with Vasquez. I'll post a longer reply in a couple of hours, I have to log off now. :good
Without looking at the other posts I would say Mike Tyson in his prime. He used the jab of the opponent to land punches. Watch Mike with Carl Lewis. He takes the jab so he knows he is in range of Lewis and lands the left hook.
There are only two fighters that come to my mind. These two fighters, make their opponents hesitate throwing the jab, they made their opponents almost not want to throw the jab. Mike Tyson, and Roy Jones Junior. For the simple reason, opponents knew if they threw the Jab. There is something coming back, i.e a counter attack. A Jab's main job is the dominant and set the pace of the fight, and neutralise a opponent. Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Junior where violent counter punches, they weren't art crafts men like Bernard Hopkins, they where violent and boarder line illegal.
Best examples today are Calzaghe and Hopkins, I think thats the reason it made for an ugly fight. Roy Jones all-time of course, that great speed is just difficult to find range with.