Best Demonstrations of skill, style or technique in a fight?

You have a point but lets not go overboard on how good Barkley was. He physically outmatched Duran, but he was tailor made for him, as was Davey Moore. Hence why Duran looked so impressive. They both came forward looking to fight in close and out muscle him. This and their lack of defence cost them. Nonetheless those wins still were impressive accomplishments, I'm just not as amazed as you are.

My personal choice for best clinic would be Sanchez-Gomez followed by Mayweather-Corrales. Weight problems or not, Sanchez and Mayweather took apart their opponents and completely shut them down. I'm also considering the class of opponent too, with Gomez in particular being far and away superior to both Barkley and Moore.

 

You hold that Duran's defeat of Moore and especially Barkley is not as impressive as Sanchez over Gomez and Mayweather over Corrales. I agree that Gomez was a force -but I don't think that you are considering context at all. First of all Gomez' being a great doesn't remove the plain fact that Gomez was a super bantam -not a featherweight as was Sanchez. He was a bantam before Sanchez and he was after Sanchez. Duran was a natural Lightweight challenging much larger, not smaller men, when most ATGs would have been long, long finished in the ring.

Moore I'd grant you was a relative novice, and I've stated that. I find it impressive because of the other contextual variables already mentioned in a previous post. Personally, I believe that Duran's defeat of Leonard was far more impressive than damn near anyone's in the last 50 years. I also found his performance against Hagler, albeit a losing one, quite sobering. Lightweights are not equipped to deal with full blown Welters and they have no damn business at all challenging full blown, dominant ATG Middleweight champions.

Which brings us to the Barkley fight. That was extraordinary; and any dismissal of it based on Barkley's being an "aggressive, come forward fighter" is almost not worth addressing. Would you say the same had Duran beat Julian Jackson? No one was confident that Duran had kind of chance. Remeber that Iran had just bombed out Duran's conqueror in Hearns. Fact is, Duran had no business challenging this man. None and for several reasons. Consider these:

1. Duran was in his 22nd year as a pro. He was 37 years old. Lighter weight classes rely more on speed and reflexes than HWs -they age faster.

2. He was 11 years past his peak and a full decade past his career-best performance.

3. Barkley walked around at or around 190 lbs, was the same height as Hearns, and was heavy-handed enough to knock Hearns senseless in 3 rounds. In fact, he was in his prime at 28 years old. And he was on a mission to defeat Duran for his friend Davey Moore. It was personal...

4. Duran, in comparison was 5'7 with his shoes on. He was dwarfed by Barkley --and was a 3-1 underdog. He was not only fighting far past his best years, he was fighting 20 lbs over his natural weight. Glossing this over is insane.

5. If you know Barkley, you know that his performance against Duran was his career-best. He was far better than the later, deteriorated verion -the one-dimensional slugger he was against Van Horn and Toney.

Still not convinced? Do you know that last time a LW unseated a WW champion? Before Duran defeated Leonard it had been about 46 years. See if you can name another natural Lightweight in history whom you would favor to defeat a 24 year old Ray Leonard. I bet you can't.

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Now see if you can name another natural LW who could have gone 15 rounds with a 29 year old Hagler and make a fight of it. Remember that Hagler had KOd his past 8 challengers including Minter and after Duran stopped 4 more. The only title challenger to hear the 15 bell was Duran. A frickin 32 year old Lightweight.

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How about naming another natural LW who could have defeated that version of Barkley and took a Middleweight belt at the age of 37? At 36, Benny the Great was getting ruined by Welterweight Jimmy McLarnin.

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I've said it before and my ghost will come back and haunt this forum to say it again when i'm dead: We take Duran for granted.

 

I did not dismiss Duran's win over Leonard at all and I believe that win is arguably the best by one fighter over another ATG fighter. He deserves full credit.

My opinion on his wins over Barkley and Moore is that they are a bit overrated. What gives him the credit and acknowledgement from those wins is not the quality of opponents as we can both agree they aren't 'great' fighters, but more so the outside circumstances regarding those fights. As you listed, factors such as the fact that Barkley and Moore were bigger, his age, his previous dissapointments etc etc. Granted I think they are great wins, just not the awe-inspiring accomplishments that you believe they are. I tend to focus on the limitations of the two fighters he beat for example, Barkley was bigger and stronger but who did he beat really? He has that win over Tommy Hearns which, prior to, he was being destroyed. He got lucky, simple. His resume is pretty thin after that.

This is all just my opinion though and I don't expect to sway yours, I'm just stating what I think.

I still believe he is a top 10 P4P fighter, but that is based on his extremely dominant reign at lightweight and his win over Leonard (Which is the real jewel in his crown). However I feel that you fail to acknowledge his shortcomings and in particular the event that occured at the Superdome in New Orleans. Instead of giving Leonard credit I have seen you bring up Leonard's deceitful tactics and his manipulating behaviour. But in the end it was Duran who signed the contract and it was Duran who chose to turn up as a fat slob. Why detract from Leonard because of this?

This would not be a one off occurence, you say we take Duran for granted? He took his fans and believers for granted by turning up in the shape he did for the Hearns, Benitez, Laing fights etc etc. And we are expected to sweep it all under the rug? Duran has more excuses than any other fighter and whats worse is that his fans believe them and actually excuse him for it. He is the only fighter I see this happen to.

You don't rate Mayweather or Jones that highly because you feel they dodged or ducked the best? Well Duran took on the best and at least half the time turned up in ridiculous shape and he gets excused for it as being a 'passion fighter', which is worse?

 

Again, I am not "awed" by the Moore win -and made that pretty clear.

The Barkley win was as "miraculous" as Gil Clancy said, nothing less. Thirty-seven year old natural LWs don't do things like that. There is nothing like it this side of Mickey Walker.

Barkley got "lucky" against Hearns? That fight was a study in will, determination, and raw power -it was not "luck". Did you forget that Barkley beat Hearns again a few years later? Iran detererioated rapidly after '89, but what does that have to do with that February night in Atlantic city? The Barkley in the Duran fight was strong, durable, at least as determined to beat Duran as he was Hearns, and showed arguably more skill than he ever had previously and definitely more than he ever did again. That fight more or less finished him. After it he slowed down at an accelerated rate and fought like a barbarian.

Well, you state it well.

You are way off here and your memory is selective. I don't hesitate to criticize Duran in stronger terms than any fan on this site. His surrender in the Leonard rematch is enough to remove him from any consideration of the top spot or the second spot on my p4p list -his inconsistency is lamentable but let's be straight here -he was inconsistent after fighting 69 times, when in his thirties and fourties, and way out of his weight class. And you're damn right I bring up Leonard's tactics because to ignore them is to ignore the whole picture. Duran was an utter fool for coming in to face Leonard in that kind of condition. He would never beat Leonard except at his best, and never after 30. I don't detract from Leonard for Duran's stupidity, I detract from Leonard for manipulating circumstances to face what he knew would be a less-than-best Duran. Do you find that heroic?

Most every fan and the general public remotely familiar with boxing remeber Duran for two words. I think you know this. His accomplishments are taken for granted by even those who should know better. I don't consider acknowledgment of his age, years in the ring, and # of fights as "excuses" for his losses. They're all part of the picture. Duran disgraced himself more than once -I don't consider the Benitez fight or the Hearns fights as disgrace -but ":No Mas", every time he showed up fat, the Lawlor I fight, and such were travesties where he disgraced the sport that gave him his identity.

Duran is a passion fighter. It's not an excuse, and never once have I said it was, but it is at least part of the explanation for his losses. His accomplishments are more than enough to vault him far above Floyd and Roy.