best fighter never to win a world title?

The underlined is incorrect there was no argument who won either fight.


"Joey Giardello won the world middleweight boxing crown from Nigeria's **** Tiger Saturday night in 15 rounds on a decision that was wildly cheered by a big crowd at Convention Hall. The 33-year-old Giardello, a pro for 16 years, was given 8 rounds by referee Paul Cavalier, the sole official, who voted 5 for Tiger and called 2 rounds even. Giardello, a rangy, boxer type, used the old pattern of jab, sharpshoot and move against an ever-pressing opponent. Tiger missed often and seemed to have trouble catching up with Joey who used the ring to his advantage. There were no knockdowns and neither fighter appeared to be in trouble at any time as Giardello took an early lead, quickly widened it and closed strong."



Cunning Pays Off For Champ
Associated Press | December 15, 1964
It was like the old matador against the young, dangerous bull.
Middleweight champion Joey Giardello came perilously close to being gored but he called on every trick he learned in 16 years of pro battling to beat strong Rubin (Hurricane) Carter in his first title defense last night.
A rousing finish in the last five rounds of the 15-rounder earned the crafty, 34-year-old champion the unanimous decision over the muscular, 27-year-old second-ranking contender from Paterson, N.J., at Convention Hall.
Giardello was cut over the left eye and shaken by a jolting left hook in the fourth round. Carter had his big chance in that round but he blew it. Giardello absorbed several other solid left hooks to the jaw from his ever-threatening foe but Pal Joey always managed to slip away from the brink of disaster. There were no knockdowns.
The ring-scarred champion kept on the move constantly against his stalking, straight-moving opponent. With blood trickling from the cut most of the way, Giardello fought the classic fight — sticking with his left jab to the head, hooking to the body and head and making Carter miss.
Joey had the challenger slicing the air with dozens of punches in most rounds with a slip of the head or a slight move backwards or to the side. Carter landed his share of punches but Giardello scored with more."

 

amatuer boxing clearly is a different sport(less so in papp's day than now but still clear as a window), would anyone call a rugby league player the best rugby union player ever because he was great in league rules then finished his career with a few games in the other ruleset?

 

papp clearly wouldn't count if you're including amatuer boxing anyway as he won Olympic and European titles.

Ra's is clearly a simpleton or just a bad troll.

 

****

 

After the Lewis debacle ,in which, imo Tua settled for survival, I don't think he merited another title shot , nor do I think he would have been financially viable in one.

 

Carl Williams & Howard Davis. Both were skilled boxers who had the fatal flaw of weak chin. Give them better chins & they were better than several of their contemporaries who were champion.

 

****

 

***

 

I honestly lost track of Tua after the Lewis fight. He was easily one of the best of his era. Should have received another shot as everyone has stated. Who did he tick off?

 

No it isnt, all three judges clearly voted for Giardello, as did the majority of the press.

referee: Bob Polis 72-66 | judge: Jim Mina 71-66 | judge: Dave Beloff 70-67

Carter entered the ring a 6-5 favorite after being a 7-5 underdog earlier in the day.
The score listed above for judge Jim Mina is incorrect. His actual score was 69-64 for Giardello.
The Associated Press scored the fight 69-68 for Giardello.
A poll of ringside scribes showed a 15-5 edge for Giardello."


AP report.

"A rousing finish in the last five rounds of the 15-rounder earned the crafty, 34-year-old champion the unanimous decision over the muscular, 27-year-old second-ranking contender from Paterson, N.J., at Convention Hall"


." He won the fight handily, using a slick jab to keep Carter at bay, despite taking a few solid rights to the head in the early rounds, though Carter was not able to follow them up. By the 5th round, Giardello had taken control of the fight and was awarded a unanimous decision. However, the fight's depiction in the 1999 film The Hurricane has led many non-boxing fans to believe the decision was in some way corrupt or even racist. However, the decision was agreed upon by Boxing experts present at the fight, to the tune of a Giardello victory by a 3-1 margin; a subsequent informal poll of sportswriters present agreed that Giardello had won. Carter himself agreed with the decision.[5] As detailed further down this page, after the release of 'The Hurricane' in 1999, Giardello was awarded damages relating to the inaccurate depiction of him and manner of his win."


"He later filed a federal lawsuit against Universal Pictures, Beacon Communications and Aloof Films, for unspecified damages, for its "thoroughly false depiction" of his bout with Rubin Carter in Norman Jewison's 1999 film The Hurricane. "In a key scene, the film shows a punch-drunk, blood-spattered Giardello being clearly beaten by Carter but winning a racially-tinged decision...[Giardello had] suffered only a small cut over the left eye caused by a butt in the 4th round and won what a majority at ringside thought was a clear decision over a listless Carter...." Giardello settled out-of-court for an undisclosed sum and Jewison's agreement to make a statement on the DVD version of the film that Giardello "no doubt" was a great fighter.[7]"


26. Giardello had no role in the selection of the judges nor the referee of the
fight.
At its conclusion Giardello was unanimously awarded the decision over Carter scored on the "5-
point-must-system" as follows:
Giardello Carter
Referee/Polis: 72 66
Judge/Mina: 71 66
Judge/Beloff: 70 67
28. Contemporaneous news reports and expert ****ysis generally agreed
Giardello won the fight and that Carter had not done enough to take the championship away.
During the middle and later rounds, Giardello came on strong both in terms of
hitting Carter with combinations and with inside-fighting.
31. Even as recently as January 2000, Carter has stated publicly he lost the
fight, that he was not busy enough during the fight to take the championship away from
Giardello, and that in an effort to make sure he could go the full 15 rounds, he strategically
(though mistakenly) held back some of his aggressiveness.
32. Present-day boxing experts knowledgeable about the actual fight and the
manner by which boxing matching matches are judged generally agree Giardello won the fight.

36. The scenes in The Hurricane concerning the 1964 Giardello-Carter fight
are absolutely false, never happened, and bear no reasonable resemblance to the truth.
37. Neither in the 15th round nor otherwise was Giardello ever trapped on
the ropes being struck by Carter in a helpless or defenseless position, nor ever repeatedly
struck by Carter without response, and Giardello never bloodied by punches from Carter.
38. The 15th round of the Giardello-Carter fight was a close, hard-fought
round in which neither man was dominant over the other.
39. Further, though there were partisans in the audience the night of the
actual fight, the audience was not singularly uproarious in protest (as depicted in The
Hurricane), nor were there any racial overtones exhibited by the audience, the judges, or the
fighters.
40. Further, the broadcasters of the fight did not protest the decision, and
made no comments portrayed by the sportscasters in The Hurricane.
41. Indeed, the broadcasters of the fight complimented both fighters and
repeatedly commented upon the skill of Giardello exhibited during the fight.
______________________
George Bochetto, Esquire
Attorney for Carmine O. Tilelli a/k/a
Joey Giardello
Date:________________________
BOCHETTO & LENTZ, P.C.
1524 Locust Street
Philadelphia, PA 19102
(215) 735-3900


C:\MyFiles\WPDOCS\Giardello\Complaint.001.wpd-2/29/:0

At no time was Giardello interviewed by the makers of the film Hurricane ,after it was released Giardello sued for and won$75,000 for slander and libel and defamation of character.
The full transcipt of the trial can be see here.

http://graphicwitness.com/carter/giardello.html


If the fix had been in the odds would not have switched from Giardello to Carter just before the fight.

For it to have been pre-arranged the referee and the two judges would have had to have been in on it ,as would the 15 ,[ 75% ] boxing writers who voted solidly for Giardello.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...9lOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LksDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7091,1873425


http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...whPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UgEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7312,4138443

Here's the fight with soundtrack, listen to the cheers when the scorecards are announced .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYnxyLYcQ4o



Your statement has no basis in fact.
A simple," I was wrong ," from you will suffice.:good

 

huge left giardello landed in 14th there vs carter ^^.....all I have to add really.

 

In Davis' case, give him better trainers and managers and he's there.

 

I got to speak with emmanuel stewart one night...was very lucky to get some proper speaking time with him....and he said - bernard 'superbad' mays

 

I agree. It wasn't a weak chin that made him lose against the average Jim Watt and even against Edwin Rosario, Rosario had the power to knock anyone in the division down (short of the iron chinned Chavez).

 

I wasn't overly impressed with him when he fought Watt ,he had the skills and speed advantage but not the heart. His jabs were falling short all night and he was too concerned with incoming to commit himself to his punches.I don't think he was championship material because I don't think he had a true champ's mentality.