Best five wins from the best contenders

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Gazelle Punch, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is an absolute rip off of Mendozas best five wins for lineal heavy weight champions. Here we will be starting off with some of the best 40 contenders in the HW division and adding from there. The 40+ individuals are in no particular order and when they’re finished add on any reasonable fighter we may have missed within reason. Voting will be the same as in the previous post except voting will only last 48 hours.
    A first place vote = 5 points
    A second place vote = 4 points
    A thrid place vote = 3 points
    A fourth place vote = 2 points
    A fifth-place vote = 1 point

    Archie Moore
    1)Harold Johnson
    2) Nino Valdez
    3) Jimmy Bivins
    4) Bob Baker
    5) Bob Satterfield

    Chris Byrd
    1) Vitali Klitschko
    2) David Tua
    3) Evander Holyfield
    4) Jameel Mcline
    5) Fres Oquendo

    Sam Langford

    1) Harry Wills
    2) Joe Jeanette
    3) Sam Mcvea
    4) Gun Boat Smith
    5) George Godfrey

    Joe Jeannette
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Sam Mcvea
    3) Jack Johnson
    4) Jeff Clarke
    5) George Carpentier

    Harry Wills

    1) Sam Langford
    2) Sam Mcvea
    3) Luis Angel Firpo
    4) Fred Fulton
    5) Joe Jeannette

    Jerry Quarry
    1) Floyd Patterson
    2) Ron Lyle
    3) Earnie Shavers
    4) Mac Foster
    3) Thad Spencer

    Jimmy Bivins
    1) Bob Pastor
    2) Ezzard Charles
    3) Lee Q Murray
    4) Three way tie Archie Moore
    5) Joey Maxim/ Lee Savold

    Ken Norton

    1) Muhammad Ali
    2) Jimmy Young
    3) Jerry Quarry
    4) Three way tie Ron Stander
    5) Larry Middleton/ Henry Clark

    Oscar Bonavena
    1) Karl Mildenberger
    2) Zora Foley
    3) Leotis Martin
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Gregorio Peralta

    Harold Johnson

    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Eddie Machen
    3) Archie Moore
    4) Jimmy Bivins
    5) Nino Valdez


    Bob Pastor
    1) Jimmy Bivins
    2) Turkey Thompson
    3) Lem Franklin
    4) Roscoe Toles (tied for fourth)
    5) Gus Lesnevich (tied for fourth)

    David Tua
    1) Hasim Rahman (tied for first)
    2) John Ruiz (tie for first)
    3) Fres Oquendo
    4) Oleg Maskaev
    5) Michael Moorer

    Zora Foley
    1) Eddie Machen
    2) Nino Valdez
    3) Henry Cooper
    4) Bob Cleroux
    5) George Chuvalo

    Eddie Machen
    1) Nino Valdez
    2) Jerry Quarry
    3) Hurricane Jackson
    4) Doug Jones
    5) Bob Baker

    Ron Lyle
    1) Oscar Bonavena
    2) Jimmy Ellis
    3) Earnie Shavers
    4) Joe Bugner (tie for 4/5)
    5) Larry Middleton


    Cleveland Williams
    1) Earnie Terrell
    2) Alex Miteff
    3) Billy Daniels
    4) Dic Richardson
    5) Alonzo Johnson

    Nino Valdez
    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Tommy Jackson
    3) Don ****ell
    4) Brian London
    5) Mike Dejohn

    Frank Bruno
    1) Oliver McCall
    2) Gerrie Coetzee
    3) Joe Bugner
    4) Carl Williams
    5) James Tillis

    Sam Mcvea
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Joe Jeanette (tie for second)
    3) Harry Wills (tie for second)
    4) Jeff Clark (tie for fourth)
    5) Denver Ed Martin (tie for fourth)

    Donovan Ruddock
    1) Mike Weaver (tie for first)
    2) Michael Dokes (tie for first)
    3) Bone crusher Smith
    4) Greg Page
    5) Phil Jackson

    Tommy Morrison
    1) George Foreman
    2) Donovan Ruddock
    3) Carl Williams
    4) Joe Hipp
    5) Pinklon Thomas

    Corrie Sanders
    1) Wladimit Klitschko
    2) Carlos Deleon
    3) Ross Puritty
    4) Johnny Du Plooy (tied for fourth)
    5) Bert Cooper (tied for fourth)

    Ernie Terrell
    1) Zora Foley
    2) Eddie Machen
    3) Cleveland Williams
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Doug Jones

    Bob Baker
    1) Nino Valdes
    2) Rex Layne
    3) Jimmy Bivins
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Johnny Holman

    Jimmy Ellis
    1) Floyd Patterson (tied for first)
    2) Jerry Quarry (tied for first)
    3) Oscar Bonavena
    4) Leotis Martin
    5) George Chuvalo

    Buster Mathis
    1) George Chuvalo
    2) Amos Lincoln
    3) Bob Stallings
    4) Chuck Wepner
    5) James Beattie

    Lou Nova
    1) Max Baer
    2) Tommy Farr
    3) Gunnar Barland
    4) Pat Comiskey
    5) Abe Simon and Lee Ramage tie

    Elmer Ray
    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Jersey Joe Walcott
    3) Lee Savold
    4) Obie Walker
    5) Sid Peaks/ Leroy Haynes tie

    Jimmy Young
    1) George Foreman
    2) Ron Lyle
    3) Jose Luis Garcia
    4) John L Gardner
    5) Richard Dunn

    Tommy Loughran
    1) MaX Baer (tied for first)
    2) Jack Sharkey (tied for first)
    3) Ernie Schaaf
    4) James Braddock
    5) Steve Hamas

    Rex Layne
    1) Jersey Joe Walcott
    2) Ezzard Charles
    3) Bob Satterfield
    4) Turkey Thompson
    5) Cesar Brion

    Buddy Baer
    1) Tony Galento
    2) Lee Savold
    3) Nathan Mann
    4) Abe Simon
    5) Al Delaney


    Billy Conn
    1) Bob Pastor
    2) Lee Savold
    3) Al Mcoy
    4) Gunnar Barland
    5) Melio Bettina

    Earnie Shavers
    1) Ken Norton
    2) Jimmy Ellis
    3) Joe Bugner
    4) Jimmy Young
    5) Henry Clark

    Gerry Cooney
    1) Ken Norton
    2) Jimmy Young
    3) Ron Lyle
    4) Dini Dennis
    5) Eddie Gregg

    Alexander Povetkin
    1) Ruslan Chagaev
    2) Eddie Chambers (tied for 2/3)
    3) Dillian Whyte (tied for 2/3)
    4) Chris Byrd
    5) Hasim Rahman

    Lamon Brewster
    1) Wladimir Klitschko
    2) Andrew Golata
    3) Luan Krasniqui
    4) Kali Meehan
    5) Tommy Martin

    Bob Satterfield
    1) Harold Johnson
    2) Bob Baker
    3) Nino Valdez
    4) Lee Oma
    5) Cleveland Williams

    Gun Boat Smith
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Jess Willard
    3) Battling Levinsky (tied for 3rd)
    4) Fireman Jim Flynn ( tied for 3rd)
    5) Frank Moran

    George Chuvalo
    1) Jerry Quarry
    2) Doug Jones
    3) Bob Cleroux
    4) Mike Dejohn
    5) Cleveland Williams/ Manuel Ramos (tied)

    Lee Savold
    1) Lou Nova
    2) Joe Baksi
    3) Bruce Woodcock
    4) Lem Franklin
    5) Tony Musto

    Mike Weaver
    1) John Tate
    2) Gerrie Coetzee
    3) Carl Williams
    4) James Tillis
    5) Bernardo Mercado

    Young Stribling
    1) Johnny Risko
    2) Maxie Rosenbloom (tied for 2)
    3) Tuffy Griffiths (Tied for 2)
    4) Tommy Loughran
    5) Primo Carnera

    Michael Dokes
    1) Mike Weaver
    2) Randall Cobb
    3) Jimmy Young
    4) Ossi Ocasio
    5) John Gardner/ George Chaplin tied

    Tami Mauriello
    1) Lee Savold
    2) Lee Oma
    3) Lou Nova
    4) Bruce Woodcock
    5) Red Burman

    Ernie Schaff
    1) Max Baer
    2) Tommy Loughran
    3) James Braddock
    4) Young Stribling (tied for fourth)
    5) Johnny Risko (tied for fourth)

    John Ruiz
    1) Evander Holyfield
    2) Hasim Rahman
    3) Andrew Golata
    4) Kirk Johnson
    5) Fres Oquendo

    Ruslan Chagaev
    1) Nikolai Valuev
    2) John Ruiz
    3) Kali Meehan
    4) Fres Oquendo (three way tie 4/5)
    5) Vladimir Vyrchys/ Francesco Pianetta

    Oliver McCall
    1) Lennox Lewis
    2) Larry Holmes
    3) Henry Akinwade
    4) Francesco Damiani
    5) Oleg Maskaev/ Bruce Seldon (tie)

    Tim Witherspoon
    1) Frank Bruno
    2) Tony Tubbs
    3) Greg Page
    4) Carl Williams
    5) Renaldo Snipes
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  2. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We will kick it off with the old mongoose Archie Moore. These are the best five wins not necessarily the best HW wins.
    1) Nino Valdez
    2)Harold Johnson
    3) Jimmy Bivins
    4) Bob Baker
    5) Bob Satterfield
     
  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Are these on your list the only ones who we will evaluate, or could we keep going with others as well?
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    • Archie Moore
    #1. Harold Johnson IV
    #2. Nino Valdez I
    #3. Jimmy Bivins II
    #4. Bob Satterfield
    #5. Bob Barker

    • Chris Byrd

    #1. Vitali Klitschko
    #2. David Tua
    #3. Evander Holyfield
    #4. Jameel McCline
    #5. Fres Oquendo

    • Sam Langford (at HW?)
    #1. Harry Wills V
    #2. Harry Wills II
    #3. Sam McVey
    #4. Joe Jeanette V
    #5. George Godfrey III

    • Jerry Quarry
    #1. Ron Lyle
    #2. Floyd Patterson II
    #3. Buster Mathis
    #4. Mac Foster
    #5. Earnie Shavers

    • Alexander Povetkin
    #1. Ruslan Chagaev
    #2. Chris Byrd
    #3. Mariusz Wach
    #4. Marco Huck
    #5. Eddie Chambers
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Can keep going w others. Lot of guys can be added
     
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  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Love the list but kicking it off w Archie
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Edited.
     
  8. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

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    I am glad you started this as it is taking a long time to get through the champions, and old guys like me don't have that much time to wait.

    I will stick to fights which are relevant to heavyweight status regardless of weight technicalities. However, I will not use fights clearly in a lower division against a great fighter who did nothing against heavyweights. So Harold Johnson counts for Moore, but Holman Williams doesn't.

    I will only use any fighter once regardless of how many victories the subject has over him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  9. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

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    Archie Moore

    1-----Harold Johnson
    2-----Jimmy Bivins
    3-----Bob Baker
    4-----Nino Valdes
    5-----Clarence Henry

    Not making the cut. Joey Maxim--had been exclusively a light-heavyweight for several years, at least against name opponents. Could be on this list. Curtis Sheppard, Alejandro Lavorante, Bob Satterfield, etc. Moore has good depth at heavy for a contender.

    Baker over Valdes? Baker outpointed Valdes twice.

    What is missing from Moore is a win over a champion, but Johnson, Bivins, and Valdes have such wins. A lot depends on when one gets a fight against a champion to be or one who has been. Moore only fought champions at or near their peak.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Almost added Henry and Maxim myself. To me Satterfield is such an odd fighter himself...if we get to him down the line his top five would look better then most champions yet he lost to many sub par fighters
     
  11. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

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    some recommendations--Gunboat Smith, Frank Moran, Fred Fulton, Bill Brennan, Luis Angel Firpo, Ernie Schaaf, Tony Galento, Tommy Farr, Lee Savold, Joe Baksi, Paulino Uzcudun, Johnny Risko, Tommy Loughran

    I apologize up front if you have any of these men on your list.
     
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  12. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

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    Satterfield is the type of guy who will be very interesting.
     
  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Gazelle, great subject matter. Regarding Moore's best heavyweight wins, I would lose Harold Johnson and Bob Satterfield whom I believe were both light heavies when Moore beat them and would not be relevant to the question (I'm doing this literal, as heavyweight only. I'm aware you mentioned best wins, but I'm trying to contain my picks for relevancy). Using my logic - for what it's worth - I would go with:

    1) Baker
    2) Valdez
    3) Bivins
    4) Clarence Henry
    5) Jimmy Slade

    Again, great subject matter.
     
  14. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

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    this question of weights seems to really divide me from what I guess is the consensus.

    My take is there is a solid issue with Satterfield. Moore fought him in 1948 and Satterfield was not yet a heavyweight and had not beaten any heavyweights.

    Johnson though shows the problem with a hard and fast weight rule. He had beaten highly rated heavyweights before and would continue to do so. In the first two fights with Moore and his last two with Moore both men made 175. In the third fight, the only one Johnson won, Moore came in at 178. Does this mean that Johnson should get heavyweight credit for beating Moore, but Moore can't get such credit for beating Johnson?

    To me that doesn't make a lot of sense. We will each make these lists on our own criteria. Even if Johnson is not viewed as a heavyweight scalp, he still beat Valdes, Bivins, Henry, and Slade, and lost to none of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  15. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Archie's top 5:

    1. Harold Johnson
    2. Jimmy Bivins
    3. Nino Valdes
    4. Bob Baker
    5. Bob Satterfield

    Moore doesn't have the win against very top tier heavyweight, but he has excellent depth. A shame that he never fought against Walcott, this fight would have been interesting.