Best five wins from the best contenders

contender of the day

Jack Renault

1----George Godfrey
2----Fred Fulton
3----Johnny Risko
4----Floyd Johnson
5----Bartley Madden

others--Tom Cowler, Bob Roper, Homer Smith, Quinton Romero-Rojas, Sully Montgomery, Jack DeMave, Stanley Poreda

Overall, Renault went 78-27-3 with 5 NC in 113 fights. He had 36 KO victories. Renault didn't stand out early, as he was beaten by Greb and Miske, and had a NC for lack of action with Tunney. He turned it around in 1923 with KO's of Godfrey, Fulton, and Floyd Johnson. At that time and for the next year or so he would have been a worthy, but not outstanding, opponent for Dempsey, who was inactive. Hard to see him doing much with Dempsey if they had fought, though. Renault's best asset seems to have been durability. He was stopped only by Miske on a TKO in 1922 and in 1932 when 37 by Young Stribling. A run-of-the-mill contender.

 

I'm back beating the Jeff Clark drum, really a light heavyweigh who campained at heavy;
1-Jeanntte
2-Langford
3-Norfolk
4-McCarty
5-Levinsky

And if don't like them names, try
Maher
Batt Jim Johnson
Wuest

 

Gazelle, I agreed to the letter and the ranking with your Elmer Ray top 5. Ezz, JJW, Savold, Obie and Sid Peaks. I had it slightly different though with Lou Nova. Here is how I had this one.

Lou Nova

1) Max Baer
2) Tommy Farr
3) Gunnar Barlund
4) Pat Comiskey
5) Sonny Boy Walker

I hated to leave out Lee Ramage, because that was a great scalp and I omitted the Abe Simon fight because they were just a couple of preliminary boys at the time fighting a 6 rounder. However, the Sonny Boy Walker fight really has to be scrutinized for what it brought to the table. At the year end ratings Walker held a #8 ranking and had about 5 more fights before Nova and he met in July, so let's say his ranking stayed the same. So we had a top ten ranked heavyweight contender going up against a kid with a record of 11-0-2 and the kid beats him. Wow! Welcome to the big time, Lou. Too good of a win to dismiss.

 

Lou Nova

1----Max Baer
2----Tommy Farr
3----Gunnar Barlund
4----Pat Comiskey
5----Lee Ramage

Sonny Walker--scartissue made a strong case for him, but he drew with Ramage and Ramage had a better overall career in my judgement.
Abe Simon--too green
Colion Chaney--an impressive resume, and I might have slipped him into the #5 spot except Nova got him early before he really started to roll.
Overall, a solid list but no threat for the top ten top five.

Elmer Ray

1----Ezzard Charles
2----Jersey Joe Walcott
3----Lee Savold
4----Obie Walker
5----Colion Chaney

Perk Daniels--erratic but had big wins over Turkey Thompson and Curtis Sheppard. Walker, Chaney, Daniels, and Peaks are tight for the 4th and 5th places.
Overall, the best top two we have had since the Langford-Wills era. Savold is a strong #3. Ray should be in the hunt for our top ten top fives, but the last two spots might not be strong enough. His depth is good but not outstanding as Ray only started to roll when in his thirties and so was near the top for a relatively short time.

 

Nova;
1-Baer
2-Farr
3-Barlund
4-Ramage
5-Walker
Poor enough record when you examine it closely, I was wondering why Comiskey was featuring, because he wasn't much but you could easily include him.
Ray;
1-Walcott
2-Charles
3-Savold
4-Walker
5-Haynes
A fighter that has his myth increased with the years, take away the controversial Charles win and you are not left with much except the Walcott win, good but on the level of contenders that we are examining, not that strong, especialy in depth, IMO.

 

Ray's number 3 was Lee Savold, having his 39 defeat. Elmer fought Walker so many times, they were 6-3-2-1, it's hard to know what to think. Haynes, my no. 5 was losing to everybody at that time. Walcott, his signature win, was a split and he lost the rematch, having lost as a youngster to Jersy Joe too. Think of McVea, Ruddock, Moore, Machen, Vitali, Jeannette, Terrell etc and these are two weak top fives.

 

and Ellis!?

 

I want to chime in to say I disagree with this take on Ray, but that is what makes horse races. Here are the top fives as voted:

Ernie Terrell
1----Zora Folley
2----Eddie Machen
3----Cleveland Williams
4----George Chuvalo
5----Doug Jones

Elmer Ray
1----Ezzard Charles
2----Jersey Joe Walcott
3----Lee Savold
4----Obie Walker
5----Colion Chaney, Sid Peaks, Perk Daniels, Leroy Haynes

To me, there is no question that Charles and Walcott were better than Folley and Machen.

Could the other three sweep Ray's bottom three. I think it very iffy.

Terrell's top five might win three of five against Ray's, but I think it would be filling an inside straight.

And I believe having the superior top two is more important anyway.

Ray might not make the final top ten top fives, but I think his list is superior to the list of Terrell, and also those of Machen and Folley.