Best five wins from the best contenders

Eddie Machen

1----Nino Valdes
2----Jerry Quarry
3----Doug Jones
4----Hurricane Jackson
5----Bob Baker

Valdes and Quarry could be switched. I went with Valdes first because it is such an impressive KO (it is on you tube in Spanish) and Quarry had not yet beaten a quality opponent, although with 20 fights he wasn't that green.

Baker and Jackson. Both seem to have been slipping by the time Machen got to them.

Not making the cut: Joey Maxim--was washed up and fighting way over weight. Alex Miteff, Alonzo Johnson, Mike DeJohn, Brian London, Billy Hunter, Johnny Summerlin--not quite good enough. Plus draw with Williams.

Looking at his career overall, Machen fought consistently to a certain level but always came up short against the top men. He failed to beat Folley, Johansson, Liston, Johnson, Williams, Patterson, Terrell, and Frazier. His big wins, except for Valdes and Quarry, were against men who had seen better days, or were distinctly second-tier. Machen has a lot of those. His resume is more impressive for depth than quality. The only champion is the over the hill light-heavyweight, Maxim. One thing, though. Machen never lost to less than top tier men until he was old.

My take is an above average but not outstanding top five, and not a good candidate for our final ten top fives.

 

Zora Folley

1----Eddie Machen
2----Nino Valdes
3----Henry Cooper
4----Bob Cleroux
5----George Chuvalo

Cleroux over Chuvalo. Cleroux beat Chuvalo 2 of 3. Chuvalo over Jones. Chuvalo KO'd Jones.

Not making the cut: Bob Foster--never beat a top heavy, so hard to put him on this list. Doug Jones--was highly rated mainly because he KO'd Folley, but otherwise didn't do much at heavy except give Ali a great fight, which might put him on this list for many. Henry Clark--somewhat green at 10-2-2 when he fought Folley. Oscar Bonavena--had only 8 fights when Folley beat him. Certainly one of the top five men Folley defeated, but very green.

Others--Mike DeJohn, Alex Miteff, Willi Besmanoff, Roger Rischer, Wayne Bethea, Joe Bygraves, Alonzo Johnson Billy Daniels

Folley has a ton of depth. Very impressive on that basis. His top five, no matter who is put in there, is good but I don't see it as so outstanding that it is a lock for a top ten spot. He has no heavyweight champions on his list, and his #1 victim, Machen, was a guy who always came up short against the best himself. Unlike Machen, Folley got upended now and then by second tier guys who would not have been highly rated if they didn't KO him. I think that was due to a shaky chin. Folley outboxed Machen, when they met, but was less durable and therefore more vulnerable to punchers.

 

Guys, Folley and Machen have absolutely loaded records with such impressive wins but I have to really look at this. A cursory look at this last night (I was expecting this to be posted today - thanks, Gazelle) and I found myself shaking my head because for all the gloss with some of these great names, I found myself saying, "Wait a minute, he wasn't on the radar at this time or he was done by this time." I'm just trying to name them when it was a truly great win. I know its my criteria and maybe not everyones, but that's what is making this enjoyable. On how everyone is seeing this and classifying this. Jason and Gazelle, I've really found your picks excellent and well thought out on these two. A really good blend. I'll hit this later today.

 

Yep, Folley had some depth. I left out DeJohn, Bethea, Jones, Clarke, Bonavena, and then there was the close loss later to Oscar and draws with Al Jones and Mildenberger;
1-Valdes
(I'm not a big as most on Nino but he but he was peak and totally eclipsed)
2-Machen (boring fight but a great scalp.)
3-Clerous
4-Cooper
5-Chuvalo

and as for Machen who I rate the better;
1-Valdes(again!)
2-Quarry(OK he was a bit green but Eddie was nearly finished)
3-Jackson-underrated and about peak
4-Baker
5-D.Jones
Just missing out is Summerlin and there were the draws with Cleveland and Folley.
Overall two excellent contenders who straddled the mid 50's towards the 70's with success.

 

Folley and Machen, these two are definitely the hardest so far. And the reason is - as some of the guys have mentioned - is because of the depth of talent on their records. I didn't just want to name names, because that is a disservice to what a fighter was at the time, but still it was difficult. And difficult is good because it makes one think. Anyways, whether I'm right or wrong, this is how I saw it.

Zora Folley

1) Eddie Machen - understand it to be a boring fight but top contender
2) Henry Cooper - on a nice winning streak and top 10 only to be blown away in 2.
3) Robert Cleroux - rated in top 5.
4) George Chuvalo - rated in top 10
5) Nino Valdes - Still a respected name, Machen got to him first, but for his experience, still marquee name.

Missing the cut - Bob Foster (I was torn between Valdes and Foster for the #5 spot), Oscar Bonavena (an 8 bout novice) and Doug Jones (coming off 2 losses)

Eddie Machen

1) Nino Valdes - love this win. What makes this so brilliant was that Eddie was a 12 fight novice.
2) Hurricane Jackson - Jackson coming off his title fight with Patterson
3) Mike DeJohn - top 10
4) Doug Jones - undefeated, although technically still light heavy venturing into heavy.
5) Jerry Quarry - although Quarry was not top 10 yet, he wasn't far and what makes this brilliant was Eddie's age and being able to schooling the hottest prospect around.

Missing the cut - Bob Baker (was starting to creak by now but still a good win), Johnny Holman (coming off the elimination tourney for Marciano's title), Billy Hunter (wins over Miteff were good but not enough)

Again, a real toughie.

 

contender of the day

Obie Walker

1----George Godfrey
2----Tony Galento
3----Don McCorkindale
4----Bearcat Wright
5----Elmer Ray

Others--Maurice Strickland, Al Hart, Leroy Haynes, Unknown Winston

Walker was the colored champion after beating Godfrey and has a good stat record of 93-18-7 with 63 KO's in 121 fights. There are those who see him as an uncrowned champion, but a close look at his record leaves me disagreeing. After beating Godfrey he went to Europe and was pretty good, but certainly not outstanding. He lost twice to Gustave Limousin. Also lost to Larry Gains and Jack London. Back home Walker lost to Willie Reddish and Jack Trammell. Many of his names seem to be old and past it, Godfrey, Haynes, Winston, or not yet top men, Galento, Hart, and Ray.

Elmer Ray is a big name but was not the fighter he became and when he began improving, he was able to beat Walker. Walker's Euro tour and losses came in his mid-twenties, when he should have been the best he ever was.

So, on balance, an interesting fringe contender, trial horse type, but not a top man.