Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.

  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    In this thread, I will be asking for a vote for the best five wins among Lineal / Ring Magazine champions. We will go in chronological order, starting with Mr. John L Sullivan.

    To define what a best win ask yourself and take in account the following:

    ) 1 The formability of the opponent when the match happened. Was the opponent Young & Green, Pre-prime, Prime, Slightly past his prime, Past his prime or shot?

    2 ) The status of the opponent when the match happened. Was the opponent champion? Was he ranked? Would he have been ranked pre 1920? How highly ranked #1, #5, #10

    3 ) The conclusiveness of the result. Did he win via KO up on points, TKO up on points, win a wide decision, win closely on points, Win via split decision, or a win via controversial decision?

    4 ) You may only list a name once ( Late rule )

    There will be three days of debate, newspaper posting and hopefully some learning on the process. I'll tally the score for the ESB top 5 best wins. To keep easier to score easy, please DO NOT SKIP the order of the Champions. Mods can make this a sticky thread if they wish.

    How this is scored? After 3 days, we count all the names mentioned and give them a total score based on where people voted them.

    A first place vote = 5 points
    A second place vote = 4 points
    A thrid place vote = 3 points
    A fourth place vote = 2 points
    A fifth-place vote = 1 point


    In case of a tie, whoever got more got the highest single ( or multiple ) vote advances. If still tied whichever fighter got more discussion.

    I will edit and post the top 5 best wins here after each fighter:

    Sullivan

    1. Kilrain
    2. Mitchell
    3. Burke
    4. McCaffrey
    5. Greenfield


    Corbett

    1 ) McCoy
    2 ) Choynski
    3 ) Sullivan
    4 ) Kilrain
    5 ) Mitchell


    Fitzsimmons best five wins:

    1. Corbett
    2. Sharkey
    3. Ruhlin
    4. Maher
    5. O'Brien

    Jeffries best five wins


    1, Fitzsimmons
    2, Corbett
    3. Sharkey
    4. Ruhlin
    5. Griffin

    Hart's best five wins

    1. Johnson
    2. Root
    3. O'Brien
    4. Ruhlin
    5. Ferguson

    Burns best five wins


    1.Hart
    2. O'brien
    3. Flynn
    4. Lang
    5. Moir

    Johnson's best five wins

    1,Denver Ed Martin
    2. McVey
    3. Burns
    4. Jeffries
    5. Langford

    Willard's best five wins


    1. Jack Johnson
    2. Moran
    3. Morris
    4. Floyd Johnson
    5. Pelky


    Dempsey's five best wins

    1. J. Sharkey
    2. Fulton
    3. Gibbons
    4. Miske
    5. Willard

    Tunney's top 5

    1. Dempsey
    2. Greb
    3. Gibbons
    4. Heeney
    5. Weinert


    Schmeling top 5 wins

    1. Louis
    2. J. Sharkey
    3. Stribling
    4. Uzcudun
    5. Walker

    J Sharkey's top five wins


    1. Wills
    2. Schmeling
    3 Loughran
    4. Carnera
    5. Godfrey


    Carnera's best five wins

    1. J. Sharkey
    2. Loughran
    3. Uzcudun
    4. Schaff
    5. Levinsky

    Baer's best five wins.


    1. Schmeling
    2. Carnera
    3. Schaff
    4. Farr 16
    5. Galento

    Braddock's best five wins:


    1. Baer
    2. Farr
    3. JH Lewis
    4. Lasky
    5. D. Jackson


    Joe Louis best five wins:

    1. Schmeling
    2. Walcott
    3. M Baer
    4. Conn
    5. Carnera

    Charles best five wins:

    1. Walcott
    2. Louis
    3. Ray
    4. Maxim
    5. Layne

    Joe Walcott best five wins.

    1. Charles
    2. Bivins
    3. Ray
    4. Maxim
    5. Baski

    Rocky Marciano's best five wins.

    1. Walcott
    2. Charles
    3. Moore
    4. Layne
    5. Louis


    Floyd Patterson's best five wins.

    1. Ingo
    2. Moore
    3. Bonevena
    4. Machen
    5. Chuvalo

    Ingemar Johansson’s 5 best wins

    1. Patterson
    2. Machen
    3. Erksine
    4. Cooper
    5. Neuhaus

    Liston's top 5 wins:

    1. Patterson
    2. Machen
    3. Folley
    4. Williams
    5. Valdes

    Ali's best five wins

    1. Foreman
    2. Liston
    3. Frazier
    4. Norton
    5. Patterson

    Frazier's top 5.

    1. Ali.
    2. Ellis
    3. Quarry
    4. Bonevena
    5. Machen

    Foreman's top 5

    1. Frazier
    2. Norton
    3. Moorer
    4. Lyle
    5. Chuvalo

    Leon Spinks best five wins

    1. Ali
    2. Mercado
    3. Evangelista
    4. Righetti
    5. Burnett

    Holmes best 5 wins

    1. Norton
    2. Witherspoon
    3. Mercer
    4. Shavers
    5. Cooney

    Mike Spinks top 5 wins

    1. Holmes
    2. Cooney
    3. Tangstand
    4. Johnson
    5. Ranquello


    Tyson's best five wins

    1. Spinks
    2. Tucker
    3. Holmes
    4. Ruddock
    5. Berbick

    Douglas top 5 wins

    1. Tyson
    2. Berbick
    3. McCall
    4. Page
    5. Cobb

    Holyfield's top five wins

    1. Bowe
    2. Tyson
    3. Moorer
    4. Foreman ( 90's version )
    5. Holmes ( 90's version )

    Bowe's top five wins

    Holyfield
    Tubbs
    Donald
    Hide
    Golota

    Moorer's top 5 wins.

    1. Holyfield
    2. Schulz
    3. Botha
    4. Jirov
    5. Cooper

    Briggs top 5 wins

    1. Liakhovich
    2. Foreman
    3. Mercer
    4. Calloway
    5. Valdez

    Lewis top 5 wins

    1. Vitali Klitschko
    2. Holyfield
    3. Rhaman
    4. Mercer
    5. Tua


    Vitali's Klitschko's top five wins

    1. Sanders
    2. Peter
    3. Adamek
    4. K Johnson
    5. Gomez

    Rhaman's top five wins

    1. Lewis
    2. Sanders
    3. Barrett
    4. Meehan
    5. Sullivan

    Wladimir Klitschko's top 5 wins

    1. Povetkin
    2. Byrd
    3. Chagaev
    4. Haye
    5. Ibragimov

    Fury's top 5

    1. Wlad Klitschko
    2. Wilder
    3. Chisora
    4. Cunningham
    5. Wallin 6 points.

    END.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
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  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    John L Sullivans top 5 best wins! Debate and voting ends in three days, then we move on to Corbett.

    My vote

    1. Charlie Mitchell
    2. Jake Kilrain ( London Rules ) Could be argued as his best win.
    3. Jack Burke
    4 . Domincik McCaffrey
    5. Frank Herald
     
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  3. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    John L Sullivan

    Its hard to argue with your list so I will concur with your list. I need to read more about Sullivan. I have read about Sullivan vs Mitchell a while ago so I fully agree with Mitchell being #1

    My vote is the same as yours.

    1. Charlie Mitchell
    2. Jake Kilrain ( London Rules ) Could be argued as his best win.
    3. Jack Burke
    4 . Domincik McCaffrey
    5. Frank Herald
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think I want to put Kilrain at #1 for Sullivan, as he beat better competition than Mitchel did.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sullivan is a difficult one, because of the paucity of the information surrounding his opponents.

    The lists offered above are reasonable enough.

    I would probably put Killrain at 1, owing to the reputation that built up around him before the fight. Many people really saw him as the heir to the throne, and the LPR rule set was seen as giving him an advantage.

    I might perhaps put McCaffrey at #2, because he beat Mitchell.

    Burke is a guy who was not that highly regarded at the time, but arguably had the better of Mitchell and Greenfield, and of course beat a green Corbett.

    Herald was much hyped before Sullivan beat him, but didn't do much after that, so I wonder if Greenfield might be a better pick.

    It is possible that Flood, Ryan and Elliot were better than their records suggest.
     
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  6. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Corbett and Johnson will be super interesting ones, I will wait before posting anything for those 2 though
     
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Can't wait to do that. I won't help you with Sullivan, I don't know much about his era but I will participate with Corbett and on ;)
     
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  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxingoholican Full Member

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    I think Paddy Ryan was better than his current rep
     
  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is evidence of this. His surviving paper record is almost non existent, but people seem to have rated him, both as a bare knuckle and gloved fighter!
     
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  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Do we want to move on to Corbett now? This is a super interesting thread, lets keep it moving
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Okay. I was hoping for a bit more on Sullivan. I’ll tally up his top 5. On to Corbett we go.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Up next is Jim Corbett, who has an unusual resume. He doesn't have many listed fights, however he fought 9 different men who made the hall of fame, winning his share. As a late rule, you can only list a name once among the top five.

    1. Choynski
    2. McCoy - ( This fight was a war, not a fix )
    3. Kilrain
    4. Mitchell
    5. Sullivan
     
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  13. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    James J Corbett

    1. Choynski
    2. Tom Sharkey
    3. McCoy
    4. Kilirain
    5. Sullivan

    Pity we don't have a result for Peter Jackson-Corbett match
     
  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Jim Corbett

    1. Charles "Kid" McCoy - I just assume that this fight wasn't a fix. Corbett was past his best at that point and he beat one of the best contenders of this era, I don't care how much he weighed.
    2. John Sullivan - I know that he was way past his prime and that he wasn't on his best condition. Still, Corbett was first and the only one who took advantage of that. Nobody else stopped John.
    3. Jake Kilrain - Jake was a top contender in his prime during this time. I don't know a lot about him, but he seemed to have strong reputation.
    4. Joe Choynski - Choynski wasn't your regular beginner, he was experienced amateur fighter and a real threat for the best of the division.
    5. Charlie Mitchell - he was way past his best when he fought Corbett, although it's still a nice win I wouldn't give Jim too much credit for that.

    I don't include Jackson fight because it was a draw (otherwise, this would be his best fight). I don't include Sharkey draw either because Sharkey was inexperienced then and he beat up Corbett badly, he should have lost that fight from what I've read.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1. Sullivan (whatever his condition he was the champion)
    2. Killran (this seems to have done a lot to legitimize him as a contender, more about it later)
    3. McCaffrey
    4. McCoy
    5. Choynski