Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Langford refused to fight Kaufman,which amused Johnson no end.

 

I think we have a reasonable line on Corbett, regarding his second challenge to Jeffries
In the nine and a half years prior to it ,he had five fights and won one of them ,the McCoy bout which many think was faked to give him the credibility to challenge Jeffries.Your premise about only guessing a fighter's ability at the time , since they had no current form, is well taken. Jackson's previous fight before coming out of nearly 6 years retirement ,was against Denny Kelliher, who had not won any of his previous5 fights,Hard to gain much confidence from that.

 

I probably phrased it obscurely,what I meant is after Johnson ,Kaufman was never seen as a prospective champion again.

 

Sullivan: Kilrain, McCaffrey, Mitchell, Burke, Herald

Corbett: Sullivan, Kilrain, McCaffrey, Mitchell, Choynski

Fitzsimmons: Corbett, Maher, Sharkey, Ruhlin, Dunkhorst

Jeffries: Fitzsimmons, Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin, Goddard

Hart: Johnson, Root,

Burns: Hart, O'brien, Flynn, Roche, Squires

Johnson: Langford, Jeanette, McVey, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries

 

Fitz beat a lot of heavyweights better than Dunkhorst.

 

Fitz didn't beat a lot of heavyweights.

 

Back then a heavyweight was anybody over 158 lbs.

 

By standards of his times, anybody over MW was a heavyweight. Besides, even if you take into account LHW limit, Fitz still beat better heavyweights over 168 lbs than Dunkhorst.

 

I never considered Fitzsimmons for my own list, because I do not think that he had much left, but remarkably there were those who thougth he would beat Johnson!

"Fitzsimmons surely has the courage of his convictions. His fight with Jack Johnson will squelch those howlers who claim white men fear the big smoke. Bob Fitzsimmons never feared any man, and when Jack sees the icy glint in Bob's blue eyes its a good bet that he will feel less like fighting than like running a hundred yards in 9 3/5 seconds."

Bob Edgren

"Bobs hands have been broken too many times to allow him to think of trying to knock Jack Johnson's head off, even were Jack less clever than he is, for a negros skull is harder than a white mans broken hands, and Bob would surely get the worst of it."

Philadelphia Record 15 July

"A decided victory for either man will do him a lot of good. It would be a great feather in Fitzsimmons cap to knock out the man whom all the other white heavyweights have been dodging. Johnson by putting Fitz away in a decisive manner, can strengthen his claim for a fight with Burbs or any other white heavyweight who claims the championship."

Philadelphia Record 16 July

Fitzsimmons might have had very little left, but he was still a big name!

 

Are there any other fighters whose credentials people would like to discuss?

 

Make Fitz 4 years younger and Johnson wouldn't be so comfortable against him!

 

Absolutely, that would not have been a foregone conclusion!

That aside, we have seen from Tyson, how hard it can be for a knockout artists reputation to die.

People didn't truly accept that he was done, until they saw him stretched out at the feet of Kevin McBride!

 

Like your Burns list, Corbett and Jeffries solid too. Herald I don't rate high and Roche was terrible at this level. Dunkhorst wouldn't be near my Fitz list or Fitz on my Johnson top five 5-or10 for that matter. Did you forget to finish Hart?