Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Are you going to vote? Or are you going to sit on the side lines, perhaps not feeling confident enough to vote?

At least you're not trolling on the weights, age's and records for Johnson opponents. That is strictly reserved for the fighters you don't like. Jeffries ballooned up to over 300 pounds in retirement. He drank heavily and obviously ate well. He had no fight in 6 years, and a lousy camp with limited sparring. Johnson beat a shell. If I wanted to fanboy Jeffries I build Johnson up. I;d call it like I see it.

I don't consider Jackson as Jeffries best wins, however the way he won it is impressive. When an all time great faces a past his best opponent, he should blow him out, and Jeffries did that, pre prime. I don't cosider Goddard among his best wins either. Jeffries blew him out as well, pre-prime.

You can read the Brooklyn Union who followed Jackson. They said he was in shape, and looked sharp. A primary source. Who are you or anyone who was not there to say differently? Jackson did not add 100 pounds to his body when he retired. He also performed well in round one, according to primary sources.

Anyone in the know understands Fitz was deadly before and after the Jeffries fights. Just look who he beat. Corbett had his best performance, so his people say in the loss.

 

Johnson's best win over Martin was the 1904 win. Agreed? I actually think that's Johnson's 2nd best win. By that time, Martin who had more experience ( age 23 ) had been KOs in 1,2 and 3 rounds, and was stopped for a 4th time in 2 rounds by Johnson ( 1904 ). Martin was skilled but very fragile.

Johnson did beat Martin in early 1903. Martin was just 21 for that fight.

Frank Moran had 39 listed fight when he fought Johnson, so three Ko losses, two of which which were not early, the one that was early could have been a foul. Martin had significantly less when he fought Johnson wand was very young. He went out in 1, 2, 2, and 3 rounds. So it really not an apples to apples comparison. If Martin has 39 fights, he's have maybe 10 KO losses.

Given how clumsy McVey looks on film, one can only imagine what he looked like as a teenager. McVey probably was a contender based for a year based on his 1903 win over Martin, but lost to Martin in 1904, and quit boxing in 1905. That's a very narrow window for any contender.

 

Not even a player. He had a losing record in some fights vs Johnson.

 

That's because you aren't familiar with him. Johnson isn't a puncher and he put Martin out in two rounds. Armstrong was just a solid hitter also had Martin out in 2 rounds.

Denver Ed Martin had a very string bean like build and absolutely could not take it to the head or body. Read the press clippings, you'll see. Martin could move well and box. That wasn't his problem.

Another way to look at it, Martin only lost 1 decision to Johnson who wasn't known as a puncher. The rest of his 8 losses were all via KO.

Rounds 1-3 6X KO Loss
Rounds 4 1x KO Loss
Round 16 1x KO Loss

 

Jeannette took up boxing at age 25 with no amateur experience, and he says around 160 pounds. In his case there aren't many early fights missing to look for.

 

Nah, Fulton could hit. I do think Martin was a good boxer. In 1903, he gave Johnson a tough fight in a losing effort.

Johnson wins world 'colored' heavyweight title. ( 1903 )

Martin ( Just age 21 ) was ahead on points after 10 rounds. Johnson had Martin down 4 times in the 11th round, but couldn't finish him. According to the San Francisco Call, the fight was even from the 14th round to the finish. Result: Johnson wins on points after 20 rounds.

In 1904, Martin was 23, and Johnson knocked him out, which is the one I count as a best win for Johnson.

The voting CLOSES tonight for Johnson. Then we move on to Willard, who I think will prove to have a slightly better resume than most think after a full review.