Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Well we have had the highly predictable disparagement of Jack Johnson.
I'll make two more predictions if I may.
The next two similar predictions concerning the careers of champions yet to be looked at.
The same poster who has made a crusade, indeed a forum career out of denigrating Jack Johnson at every turn,will soon focus his jaundiced eye on Joe Louis ,and then later, Muhammad Ali.
There will be fanciful tales of Louis' mob ties, referees giving him preferential treatment, biased scoring etc.
Confident assurances that Louis lost to Walcott in their first fight,though nobody here, including him, has seen the full fight, will be trotted out ad nauseum.
Anyone who believes this thread was created for the purpose of actually deciding on an objective collective opinion about Johnson,and the other two champs I've mentioned, yet to come, is guilty of a naivety and misplaced trust in the honesty and even-handedness of this particular poster.
This is a poster who has stated the Johnson V Jeffries fight was even after 10rounds.
That Jim Flynn may well have outlasted Johnson ,in their title fight.
That Moran gave Johnson a very close fight.

This schtick was old and tired 10 years ago,now it's so predictable it makes Ground Hog Day seem fresh.
FAKE NEWS,AND VERY,VERY OLD FAKE NEWS AT THAT.
YAWN

 

Pertinent points,it might though be as well to remember that a couple of Willard's fights could just as easily be interpreted as wins,certainly the draw with McCarty was very close.
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:95065
There was controversy over the Smith fight too.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1913-05-22/ed-1/seq-8/

 

Pertinent points,it might though be as well to remember that a couple of Willard's fights could just as easily be interpreted as wins,certainly the draw with McCarty was very close.
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:95065

The relevant points on Johnson were made here over a decade ago but one hater, like a dog with a bone , can't let it go.I've been impressed by the contributions some posters have made here ,as to the hater, nothing changes.

 

1. Jack Johnson - no explanation needed
2. Floyd Johnson - given the second place, because Willard was past his prime, when he beat Johnson
3. Frank Moran - given third place because Moran was seen as the best available challenger by some in the media
4. Carl Morris - probably the best that Willard beat apart from Johnson, but the timing is a bit off
5. Arthur Pelkey - probably a better fighter than anybody else that Willard beat, apart from the above names

 

Just move on from Johnson, otherwise this will destroy our thread. Let's move to Willard:

1. Jack Johnson - obvious choice, despite being past prime Johnson was still the champion.
2. Carl Morris - I think he was a bit more dangerous than Moran.
3. Frank Moran - dominant performance over decent (but not very good) contender.
4. Floyd Johnson - given circumstances really good win, but Floyd wasn't great by any means.
5. Arthur Pelkey - don't know much about him, but don't see any better choice here.

Willard was quite talented guy in my opinion, but he started late and didn't have much dedication to this sport. A shame because with different mindset he could have been special.

 

Pelkey who wasn't very good to start with ,was devastated by the McCarty tragedy and rapidly became a nobody,he only continued in the game to pay off his legal bills from the McCarty death.
Pelkey was a PE instructor for the Canadian Army in WW 1

No official decision was given in the Willard v Moran fight it was a NWS.
Look up how many times that has happened in a heavyweight title fight! Willard was an unpopular champion,he had no love for the game or the hoopla that went with being champion.On top of that he refused to take part in exhibitions for the troops.

 

I agree with everything except Pelkey not being very good.

I think that before the McCarthy tragedy he showed real potential.

 

Pelkey[Peletier]lost his first fight, and was kod by black heavyweight George Christian in the first round in his 2nd ,this was 1911.Dempsey would later ko Christian in the opening round
The Burns fight may have been a put up job.

 

It might have been, but if it was not, then he must have been fairly capable.

 

Burns idea was to promote Pelkey,Burns then 31 ,offered McCarty,at the time the White heavyweight champion, $10,000 to fight himself in Calgary Canada.Having gotten McCarty's attention ,and plenty of publicity ,Burns then withdrew and instead matched McCarty with Pelkey,which was his intention all along.

 

Yes, but it might be that Pelkey impressed him when they fought, and that he decided to manage Pelkey for that reason.

 

I may have overstated my case, Pelkey wasn't that special,but he wasn't useless by any means,after the tragedy he was a broken man, traumatized and depressed.
Anyway time for my bed,I want to get my dogs out early, before it gets too hot.

 

Burns's decision to manage Pelkey is interesting, because he was still a name fighter himself.

Would he have gone to torturous lengths to promote a no hoper, when he still had a marketable product in himself?

Burns didn't need a manufactured fighter, he needed real one with a better sell by date than he had.