Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    The problem with this thesis is Pelkey was only 3 years younger than Burns,and Burns had only had one fight in the previous 3 years.
     
    mcvey, May 27, 2020
    mcvey, May 27, 2020
    #271
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Sure, but if Burns wanted a no hoper to fight McCarthy, wouldn't he just do it himself?
     
    janitor, May 27, 2020
    janitor, May 27, 2020
    #272
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I never implied he wanted a no hoper to do anything,I just said Pelkey wasn't anything special.Based in Canada, which Pelkey also was ,I doubt there were too many local hopefuls for Burns to choose from.
    Pelkey had 3 losses on his sheet when he fought Willard ,[he was 13-3-2]
    The Burns vPelkey NWS fight was given as a draw .There seems to be a lot of misinformation being posted here,presumably from CBZ which has thee 1st Salisbury fight, and the Benedict one tabbed incorrectly,
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    mcvey, May 27, 2020
    mcvey, May 27, 2020
    #273
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Pelky and Burns fought a 6 round no decision just before the McCarty fight, and a 6 round exhibition match just after the McCarty fight.

    Burns all but disappeared form the scene. How he would have done in the white hope era is open for speculation, I think McCarty, Willard, Morris and Moran would have beaten Burns, who was close to done with boxing by 1910. By 1911, Burns relinquished his British Empire Title that he won in 1910 over Billy Lang.

    We knew Willard's resume was thin and the #5 spot would be difficult, but I say Pelky at the time he fought Willard only had one loss at the time could be viewed as his 5th best win.

    Why Willard did virtually nothing in 1917 and 1918, is uncovered ground.
     
    Mendoza, May 27, 2020
    Mendoza, May 27, 2020
    #274
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pelkey, Morris, Moran were just part of the lot that included Smith, Coffey, Flynn, Etc and indeed were not th best of them. McMahon, Levinsky, Dillon, light heavies really were better than most, outside of old Johnson, Willard beat nobody of real merit, granted his win/lossdraw with McCarty is probably his best effort.
     
    mattdonnellon, May 27, 2020
    mattdonnellon, May 27, 2020
    #275
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  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    willard was making money with his circus in thoes years. Pelkey was never anything much and Morris was ballyhooed far beyond his ability, he was big, tough, game and dirty but that's it.
     
    mattdonnellon, May 27, 2020
    mattdonnellon, May 27, 2020
    #276
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Mostly agree. Can you give us your top 5 for Willard? IMO Dillion, had Willard fought and defeated would be on his best five wins for sure. I'll give one more day for votes and debate, then we move on to Jack Dempsey!
     
    Mendoza, May 28, 2020
    Mendoza, May 28, 2020
    #277
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Certainly.

    Willard beat Morris when he was coming off a DQ loss, and most of his best wins were still ahead of him.

    It might have been a better win a year or two later.

    I also find the number of DQs on Morris's record a bit troubling.
     
    janitor, May 28, 2020
    janitor, May 28, 2020
    #278
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    willard;
    1-johnson


    moran
    morris
    f johnson
    and dammit Rodel!
    God, he had a brutal resume but if Gunboat and McCarty were wins...
     
    mattdonnellon, May 28, 2020
    mattdonnellon, May 28, 2020
    #279
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  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dempsey...Wills, Godfrey, Greb, Norfolk, Jeanette...HaHa
     
    mattdonnellon, May 28, 2020
    mattdonnellon, May 28, 2020
    #280
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Lol, well you could say he had a few good performances. Time to score Willard.
     
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    #281
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Willard's best five wins. It wasn't a deep resume, nor did it have a lot of film to judge. Sports 2, 3, and 4 were separated by just 3 points, and he had our first tiebreaker rule for 3rd and 4th place. Six posters voted.

    1. Jack Johnson 30 points
    2. Moran 20 points
    3. Morris 17 points
    4. Floyd Johnson 17 points
    5. Pelky 5 points

    Voting rules:

    A first place vote = 5 points
    A second place vote = 4 points
    A thrid place vote = 3 points
    A fourth place vote = 2 points
    A fifth-place vote = 1 point


    In case of a tie, whoever got more votes gets the spot. If it's still tied, whoever got the highest single vote.
    This content is protected


    *In this case there was more discussion on Morris.*
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    #282
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Here we go to Mr. William Harrison. A.K.A. The Manassa Mauler. Best knows as Jack Dempsey. Picking his top 5 best wins won't be easy as Dempsey had some decent pre-title work. Some of Dempsey's best wins are clouded with controversy. The trend here has been to pick the older past his best lineal champion for the #1 spot on the less than stellar resumes.

    I'm going to let someone else go first. If there is Miske expert in the house, speak up as the 1918 win here for Dempsey is something I'm have a hard time placing. I don't think the Sharkey win was clean, but it is impressive on his resume. The conclusiveness of the Fulton win to me rates higher than the low and dirty win over Sharkey. Firpo to me is over rated but that one is a popular film. Gibbons, I think you could argue for a top spot.
     
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    Mendoza, May 29, 2020
    #283
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    My thoughts for Dempsey:

    1. Jack Sharkey (a past prime former champion, beating the hear to his throne)
    2. Fred Fulton (A very dominant win, over one of the best contenders in history)
    3. Jess Willard (no explanation needed, misses the #2 spot because Fulton had been more active recently)
    4. Tommy Gibbons (a convincing win over a very dangerous contender)
    5. Billy Miske II (Miske was coming off a draw over Fulton and a win over Greb in the past year)

    Just missing the cut are Miske I, Brenan I, and Firpo.
     
    janitor, May 29, 2020
    janitor, May 29, 2020
    #284
  15. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Jack Dempsey


    1. Jack Sharkey
    2. Tommy Gibbon
    3. Fred Fulton
    4. Billy Miske 2
    5. Luis Fripo

    HM: Brennan, Morris, Willard

    The Sharkey win is controversial in that there appeared to be a low blow involved. I am not entirely sure. However, since Hart's win over Johnson was counted, I guess we have to count this as well. Sharkey was a terrific boxer while Dempsey was past it.

    Gibbons was a master boxer, albeit a light heavyweight, and Dempsey did outbox him for much of the fight. Fulton was a very good contender, a notch below Wills, but very good. I only wish we had tape of that.

    Fripo was crude but powerful, and I will take a crude power puncher in his prime over an aging Willard any day of the week.

    Miske is a tough one. He was a very good boxer and despite his illness, he was putting a lot of good wins together. I wasn't sure where to rank the Miske win.
     
    dmt, May 29, 2020
    dmt, May 29, 2020
    #285
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