Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.


Page 30 of 85
  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    For some reason Monday felt best for Braddock, but you're right up next is the much discussed Carnera.
     
    Mendoza, Jun 7, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 7, 2020
    #436
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,628
    1,897
    Dec 2, 2006
    Leon See has the loss to Diener in 1929 as just about the only worthwhile sincere fight that Primo had prior to the Godfrey fight. My term rating was not meant to be "Ring" ratings, you yourself pointed how Rickard controlled these. Carnera been rated in 1929 is proof enough of the validility or othrwise of these ratings. Read the contempory papers, the line that Carnera was a con was out there, he was controlled by the European mob, then American gangesters, not unusual in these days. Sharkey too had dubious connections
     
    mattdonnellon, Jun 7, 2020
    mattdonnellon, Jun 7, 2020
    #437
    Jason Thomas likes this.
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,597
    27,270
    Feb 15, 2006
    This in itself seems highly implausible.
     
    janitor, Jun 7, 2020
    janitor, Jun 7, 2020
    #438
    Jason Thomas likes this.
  4. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,428
    8,877
    Oct 8, 2013
    All true points, going into the bout, I could see Wills being viewed as both the more dangerous opponent and the better scalp for Sharkey. Hindsight though shows that Wills was at the end at age 37 by being Ko'd in his very next bout against Uzcudun. He also didn't impress much going the distance with Journeyman Bartley Madden and being extended the distance in a lackluster affair with a chubby version of Firpo.
    If I was to make a comparison - it may be remembered akin to Tyson Fury defeating Wlad. An exceptional win, no doubt, but Wlad lost his next fight to Joshua and retired. He also looked very poor against Jennings in the preceding bout but nobody paid attention to that. If Fury goes on and bests Joshua - years from now that may be remembered the better win. Anyway Your points are valid. I shouldn't be too harsh on Wills he was unbeaten for years until Sharkey pulled the trick. It is a great win.
     
    The Long Count, Jun 7, 2020
    The Long Count, Jun 7, 2020
    #439
    mcvey, 70sFan865 and Jason Thomas like this.
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    Jack Sharkey and his fans could say, I fought them all. Black, White, foreign born, big and small. The diversity of his resume and quality of wins is impressive. While he lost his share, the depth of his resume of wins his perhaps the best to date. Loughran edges Carnera based on one 1st place vote.

    Jack Sharkey's best five

    1. Wills - 25points
    2. Schmeling - 22 points
    3 Loughran - 19 points
    4. Carnera - 19 points
    5. Godfrey - 14 points
     
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #440
    70sFan865 likes this.
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    A pause for a moment, he's what we came up with which is updated on post one.

    Sullivan

    1. Kilrain
    2. Mitchell
    3. Burke
    4. McCaffrey
    5. Greenfield

    Corbett

    1 ) McCoy
    2 ) Choynski
    3 ) Sullivan
    4 ) Kilrain
    5 ) Mitchell

    Fitzsimmons best five wins:

    1. Corbett
    2. Sharkey
    3. Ruhlin
    4. Maher
    5. O'Brien

    Jeffries best five wins

    1, Fitzsimmons
    2, Corbett
    3. Sharkey
    4. Ruhlin
    5. Griffin

    Hart's best five wins

    1. Johnson
    2. Root
    3. O'Brien
    4. Ruhlin
    5. Ferguson

    Burns best five wins

    1.Hart
    2. O'brien
    3. Flynn
    4. Lang
    5. Moir

    Johnson's best five wins

    1, Denver Ed Martin
    2. McVey
    3. Burns
    4. Jeffries
    5. Langford

    Willard's best five wins

    1. Jack Johnson
    2. Moran
    3. Morris
    4. Floyd Johnson
    5. Pelky

    Dempsey's five best wins

    1. J. Sharkey
    2. Fulton 32
    3. Gibbons
    4. Miske
    5. Willard

    Tunney's top 5

    1. Dempsey
    2. Greb
    3. Gibbons
    4. Heeney
    5. Weinert

    Schmeling top 5 wins

    1. Louis
    2. J. Sharkey
    3. Stribling
    4. Uzcudun
    5. Walker

    J Sharkey's top five wins

    1. Wills
    2. Schmeling
    3 Loughran
    4. Carnera
    5. Godfrey
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #441
    70sFan865 and dmt like this.
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    On to Carnera, a guy I think has been unfairly tarnished over the year. The depth of his resume might surprise.

    “Da Preem” best five are not easy to sort of based on too many DQ's, which Sharkey had his share of as well.

    Pronounced Kar-Nera, Primo likely expeirnced some racism, as back then some Italians were considered to dark. If the Italian American community embraced him like Rocky Marciano that would be news to me. Much of Carner's best is on film.

    Carnera top 5 wins

    1. Sharkey - Certainly not a fix. The reverse angle of the punch shows the KO best.
    2. Loughran - Won clearly on film.
    3. Uzcudun - His name has been on other lists.
    4. Gross - Never saw on film. A real hot head type with some power.
    5. Stribling - Need more details of the this DQ win

    Others to look at:

    Godfrey DQ win. I had Godfrey ahead until he landed a low blow.
    Levinsky
    Neusel
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #442
  8. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    11,442
    17,346
    Jul 2, 2006
    Carnera

    1. Sharkey -
    2. Loughran
    3. Uzcudun -
    4. Stribling
    5. Gross

    Carnera was a pretty decent fighter. He certainly can't compare to modern super heavyweights in terms of skill, but he had good size and strength.
     
    dmt, Jun 8, 2020
    dmt, Jun 8, 2020
    #443
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,126
    Jun 2, 2006
    The Stribling fights are widely believed to have been fixes.

    Carnera decisioning a 34 years old Uzcudun in front of a Roman audience was hardly a surprise.
    When Gross is included your top 5 wins, you are in trouble legacy wise!
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...mplete+Loughran+v++Carnera+fight&&FORM=VDVVXX
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    #444
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    11,442
    17,346
    Jul 2, 2006
    Excellent work Mendoza. Looks terrific so far.
     
    dmt, Jun 8, 2020
    dmt, Jun 8, 2020
    #445
    Mendoza likes this.
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    Gross could be in quite a few top five wins from past champions. He has a win over Godfrey
     
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #446
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,126
    Jun 2, 2006
    Yes Godfrey was nearly 36, and fighting the also rans by then.
    Correction,nearly 35. Godfrey beat Tiger Jack Fox in Jan 1933. Fox was just another fighter back then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    #447
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    FAKE NEWS ALERT. Gross beat Godfrey when Godfrey was 34 years only, not 36. After losing to Gross, Godrey went on to beat Jack Tiger fox, who was hardly an also ran.

    In a match with Loughran, Gross has Loughran down in rounds 6 and 8. Under a modern 10 point must system, he's a likely winner over the course of 10 rounds.

    As another poster mentioned, Gross was a rare southpaw.

    This content is protected


    Okay, we have a win over Godfrey ( age 34 ) and what looks like a win over Loughran, who rated high on Sharkey's list.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #448
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    That's up to the voter to determine. We have to factor in DQ losses, and bad decisions on our votes to determine the fighters value. Mickey Walker got votes based on "beating" Sharkey for example. Why not the same for Gross for flooring Loughran twice in a ten round match? Like I said using the ten point must system ( which this match was not fought under ) and the judges votes for rounds, Gross is the winner. Boxing had a real problem with judging and DQ's in this time line.

    The 1930's was like a game of musical chairs with the title until Joe Louis came around. I'm not super high on Loughran and don't consider him an all time top 100 heavyweight, but he had skills and won his share in the 1930's. Carnera beat Loughran convincingly on film, I think it's one of his best wins.

    On Carnera, he's underrated in the sense that his stamina and conditioning was excellent for a man his size, and he had a very good fighting heart too. Taken a punch and defense was not his thing.
     
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    Mendoza, Jun 8, 2020
    #449
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,126
    Jun 2, 2006
    I thought this thread abided by the official decisions given,has that now changed because it has become "inconvenient"?
     
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    mcvey, Jun 8, 2020
    #450
Page 30 of 85