Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.


  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I will make my Carnera list later, but for someone who is trashed so much he has excellent resume.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    " One judge voted for each fighter and the referee then called it a draw. This decision was changed the following day by the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission when the referee found that he had miscounted his card. He gave the decision to Loughran 4 - 3, with three rounds even. (New York Times) "

    If Gross had two 10-8 rounds, in the 10 point must system, he's the clear winner here. We know who the judges voted. 4-3-3 with two knockdowns scored by the guy who won 3 rounds is the winner in a ten point must system.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'm going on the judges official votes as they decide the winner. If this was a 10 point must scoring, which is how modern boxing fans tend to view boxing there is no question who would have won on the judges cards in the Gross vs Loughran match. That's 100% accurate.

    If you are arguing you have to see the full fight to judge it, that is a completely different point that I am making. The news read says a close fight with two knockdown scored for Gross We do not know what happened in most of the rounds pre-1940 unless its on film.
     
  4. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not necessarily. If a fighter scores a flash knockdown in a round he otherwise clearly lost, it could be scored 9-9 (or 10-10). There was a famous case of this in Moorer-Holyfield.

    In any case, I don't really see the point of retrospectively judging a fight under rules that didn't even exist at the time. They fought and were judged under the rules of the day.
     
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  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Once again,
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    ,
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    . This is known. The ref had it a tie, but later discovered he had it for Loughran by a point. Now assuming a 10 point must system, the ref has it for Gross by three points based on two knockdowns, hence Gross would have been the winner 100% under the ten point must system. Make sense now?

    The only thing to argue is it s SD or UD for Gross.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm wondering when it is going to register with you that you are not going to win this?
    You can lead a poster to the truth ,but you cant make him think.
     
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  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Gross, Neussel and King Levinsky are high on your decent win lists and you need a fix v Stribling, I think your vresume is poor. I'll try and come up with a top 5, I have Sharkey(?) a Godfrey foul and an aged Loughran so far.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Says the guy with no clue on math. This was scorecards point, I wasn't talking to you. I expect him to get it. You won't. Are you ever going to vote here? All I see is mostly negative comments and factual errors from yourself.
     
  9. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Carnera

    1. Sharkey
    2. Loughran
    3. Uzcudon
    4. Levinsky
    5. Mccorkindale

    I left off the murky victories over Stribling, and Godfrey (a fight Carnera was losing although the footage we have of that bout it does look fairly competitive) as those bouts may have been fixed.
    Left off Schaaf as he was recovering from meningitis - and rushed back way too soon, many contemporary reports of the day say he was listless in the ring. Had he been healthy he zooms to the second spot as he was a fine fighter on the level or better than several champs of his era.
    Left off Neusal solid win misses the cut - strange stoppage allegedly a cut caused by a Carnera elbow
     
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  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm tempted t go with;
    Schaaf
    Sharkey
    Loughran
    Uzcuden...
    four fights in a row with Godfrey at 5.
    Which leaves us with wins over a perhaps a sick man, a fishy-for some-win over a fading champ, a fading former light-heavy and a past it, and never great, contender plus a disqualification win over a fighter that may have been threatened to lose. Neusel is probably the clearest win but as we are going by decisions actually rendered, I'll stick with the five. I haven't fully worked out in my head if we are talking contemporanius value or hindsight value.
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Okay, you didn't get it. The Ref had it a draw initially, and changed the day after the fight for Loughran by one point which gave him the split decision as one judge scored for Gross, the other for Loughran.

    Under a 10 point must system with two knockdowns scored for Gross, that's 2 more points for Gross, more than enough to break the votes tie and win via SD.

    Carnera has a few people who can be #5.
     
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Jason's point is that it wasn't scored under the 10 point must rule.
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Given that we are taking the results at face value here, this is going to be my list.

    1. Jack Sharkey II
    2. Ernie Schaff
    3. Tommy Loughran
    4. King Levinsky II
    5. George Godfrey

    The two wins that could obviously drop based upon the circumstances, are Schaff and Godfrey.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This poster has done this several times with old fights in a blatant effort to change a fights true result to the one he wanted.Its devious deceit ,and somewhat pathetic.
     
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  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Carnera has quite a deep resume, but the timing is a bit off with some of his key wins.

    I figure that since we gave Marvin Hart the Johnson win, we have to take Carnera's win over Godfrey at face value.

    The Schaff win is outstanding on paper, but you make what you will of Schaff's condition on the day.