Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Surprised at all the Norton votes...don’t think he’s as good as Patterson, Quarry or Bonavena or even a few others. To each their own.

 

Why not as good as Quarry if he beat him easily?

 

Quarry beat guys that beat Norton rather easily and that was the end of his career. Also has more rated wins

 

Quarry was only 29 when Norton beat him and in the last 2 years he scored big wins over Ron Lylve and Ernie Shavers. He definitely wasn't shot when he faced Norton. As for Quarry demolishing Shavers who destroyed Norton - well, Norton beat Ali (arguably twice) who made Quarry look like a novice.

Patterson, however, is another case - he definitely had greater career comparing to Norton and better resume. The question is how close to his prime he was when Ali beat him? Probably closer than people thought basing on his performances against Liston, because he had very good run after those fights

 

He was much younger then I thought at that point. Good point. But quarry did take that fight on very short notice.

 

But he also has his share of stinkers. I suppose they really weren’t that far apart. Both put up some stinkers and both had great wins over champion level competition

 

Quarry beat better competition than Norton. Faced much better competition overall, he may have been 29 when they fought but Quarry was living hard outside the ring, had 100's of rounds of sparring with no head gear, he was a very old and shot 29. He looked flabby in that bout as well.

 

The only "guys" who beat Norton and lost to Quarry was Shavers, and he fought Norton when Norton was 36. Why give Quarry dibs for being over the hill at about 30 and spin around and not give Norton dibs for being much older. Norton after all was older than Quarry when the two fought. That, plus his win over Ali should make this almost a no-brainer. I think it better to judge an entire career. The A beat B and B beat C and therefore A is better than C thinking can lead to a conclusion that Gipsy Daniels was better than Joe Louis.

 

Whom did Quarry beat who was better competition than Ali? Who is next? Lyle? How did he do against Jimmy Young? How did Foreman do against Jimmy Young? Shavers is the big scalp who has to be used to pump up Quarry, but he also lost to the likes of Ron Stander and Randy Cobb.

 

I agree with that. But I also think the Ali thing was more a styles match up problem. They both obviously peaked at different ages. That was Quarry’s last hoorah really and he took the fight on a less then ten day notice I think relaxing Bonavena

 

I went through the NBA ratings just to check how much deeper Quarry's resume was than Norton's. Here are the fighters ever rated in the NBA ratings that each defeated:

Quarry
Brian London, Alex Miteff, Billy Daniels, Floyd Patterson, Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis, Mac Foster, Jack Bodell, Eduardo Corletti, Larry Middleton, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Lorenzo Zanon

Norton
Bill MacMurray, Herschel Jacobs (LH), Henry Clark, Muhammad Ali, Boone Kirkman, Jerry Quarry, Jose Luis Garcia, Ron Stander, Larry Middleton, Duane Bobich, Lorenzo Zanon, Jimmy Young, Randy Cobb

Comes out to 13 for both. We will each make our own judgment, but I am more impressed by Norton's list. And if we argue to include close decision losses, Norton has such fights with Ali and Holmes.

If there is one guy overrated with this uncrowned champion stuff, it is Quarry.

I also think quality is more important than quantity. Guys like Lee Savold and Bob Baker beat more contenders than most, but I don't see them as top of the line non-champions.

 

Quarry beat Thad Spencer, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, and if we’re going to include Norton’s razor thin either way fight with Young, than he also beat Patterson. I find Quarry’s wins resume a little better than Norton’s

 

no comparison - Norton has best win. And some believe he never really lost to Ali. But that aside - I think Quarry has much deeper resume and fought many peak guys. So it comes down to Norton’s win over Ali and does it outweigh enough of Quarry’s resume - I said no - but it’s splitting hairs I got Quarry 4 and Norton 5 but truthfully not much separates them or Terrel and Patterson.