Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

You know I was thinking if we are going to put so much stock into Norton’s win over Ali, what about Frazier’s? No one is putting Frazier over Liston here, yet Frazier has by far the best win and arguably the deeper resume too.
Ali, Quarry, Bonavena, Machen, Mathis, Jones, Ellis, Chuvalo, Foster.

 

Let's put it this way, Quarry was better at handling punchers than Norton (Lyle, Shavers) but Norton was better at handling boxers (Ali, Holmes)

Norton is an all time top 25 ATG, Quarry is top 50 IMO. Norton's win over Ali gives him a huge edge

 

Perhaps Ellis deserves more consideration than he is getting?

Whatever the circumstances, he came out on top of Patterson and Quarry on paper, and he was a title claimant.

 

I agree but I have then reversed lol Quarry is in my top 25 while Norton just misses. But top 50 for sure.

 

Think it has more to do with when he beat Frazier

 

Ellis was a good fighter, I can see a case for him.

I can also see a serious case for Lyle, Shavers, Patterson or Bonavena.

Ali's next 5 wins IMO would be Lyle, Patterson, Shavers, Ellis and Terrell. Maybe Mac Foster too.

Ali's 6-10 would be better than a lot of the previous champions best 5.

 

Muhammad Ali’s 5 best wins

1 Foreman - One of the best wins in heavyweight history
2 Liston - I have Frazier a little higher than Liston overall but I think Ali faced Liston at a slightly more dangerous time
3 Frazier - I see nothing wrong with swapping him and Liston
4 Patterson - First fight
5 Norton - I can see moving him up a spot or down several, a lot of good fighters to choose from for the last 2 spots


Even Ali’s next 5 would rate higher than most other champions. His 6-10 would look roughly like:

6 Quarry
7 Terrell
8 Lyle
9 Ellis
10 Bonavena

 

I have Frazier clearly over Liston.

 

I intend to.

I consider Liston to be the best fighter that Ali beat, but I will put the win at #3, owing to circumstances.

 

Smokin Joe Frazier

1. Ali 1- great win, one of the greatest wins ever
2. Quarry 1- Quarry was an excellent fighter and Frazier just wore him down
3. Ellis- masterclass on how to break a slick boxer down, Ellis was very very good
4. Bonavena 2- first fight was controversial, second not at all. Bonavena was a bull and a hard puncher.
5. Bugner- Bugner was championship material but lacked killer instinct. Still, he was a very good fighter who bought his best vs Frazier.

IMO Frazier has an excellent resume. He cleaned out the division and beat quite a few good fighters. Smokin Joe lacks a win over a massive hitter like Lyle or Shavers. However, those guys lost to Quarry, therefore, Frazier missed out on fighting them.

IMO Frazier beats any 70's puncher except Foreman.

However, Bonavena was no joke and could certainly punch. Ali too when he sat down on his punches.

 

I think Fraziers team was trying to rebuild his confidence following the Foreman loss.

Counter punchers like Quarry and slicksters like Ellis were meat for Frazier

 

Frazier best
Ali
Quarry
Ellis
Bonavena
Machen (forgot about Machen)