Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.


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  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Foreman

    1. Frazier
    2. Norton
    3. Lyle
    4. Moorer
    5. Cooney

    Foreman #5 is pretty weak, its either Cooney or Chuvalo

    Had Foreman gotten the decision vs Briggs, I might have picked him at #5
     
    dmt, Jul 16, 2020
    dmt, Jul 16, 2020
    #841
  2. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Foreman:

    1. Frazier
    2. Moorer
    3. Norton
    4. Lyle
    5. Peralta

    It could've been Cooney or Chuvalo at #5
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jul 16, 2020
    Big Ukrainian, Jul 16, 2020
    #842
  3. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    Foreman

    1. Frazier
    2. Norton
    3. Moorer
    4. Lyle
    5. Chuvalo
     
    Jester, Jul 16, 2020
    Jester, Jul 16, 2020
    #843
  4. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just a few of comments on the Jeffries-Marciano comparison before moving on to Big George.

    Off Adam Pollack's newspaper accounts, it is certainly not clear that Sharkey was the "legit" winner over Corbett. Some papers had Corbett winning. I just don't consider Sharkey's "wins" over Fitz or Corbett as legit, and without them his resume is okay, but nothing that special.

    Archie Moore was stopped 7 times in 220 fights, or once every 31 fights. He fought about as tough a schedule as anyone in boxing history. Sharkey was stopped 4 times in 52 fights, or once every 13 fights. And that is not counting the smelly affair with Fitz in which Sharkey ended up a lump on the floor but the declared winner. That would make it one KO in every 10 fights or so. Sharkey was not particularly durable except for somehow lasting 20 & 25 rounds with Jeffries in two tries. Is it possible Jeff had problems punching downward against a short man?

    Most of the rebuttal points to Mendoza that I would have made were made by others. I found the evaluation by mattdonnellon of the top five of Jeff & Marciano the fairest.

    On Rex Layne, he did do a bit more than just lose. He beat two world champions near the time they were champions. I would give Layne a slight edge over Ruhlin, but marking them even is reasonable.

    On Hank Griffin. I don't know about the underrated or overrated part generally, but I think him grossly overrated if he is considered a better scalp than Joe Louis.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    #844
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  5. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George Foreman

    1-----Joe Frazier
    2-----Ken Norton
    3-----Michael Moorer
    4-----Ron Lyle
    5-----Gregorio Peralta

    Not making the cut
    George Chuvalo--impressive enough stopping him, but Chuvalo was aging.
    Gerry Cooney--who knows what he had left.

    Foreman is really a strange fighter to evaluate. He had lot of fights over a long period of time, and yet the depth of his resume is not all that impressive. He was champion across a far greater time span than anyone else, and to an older age, and yet I think one could make a good case that he was never the best heavyweight in the world. He was beaten decisively by Ali in the 1970's and by Holyfield in the 1990's.
     
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    #845
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  6. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Maybe but if it wasn't for Ali, Foreman might have ruled for another 10 years.
     
    dmt, Jul 16, 2020
    dmt, Jul 16, 2020
    #846
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’m still upset I missed the voting on Walcott...how Harold Johnson wasn’t in his top five is insane!
     
    Gazelle Punch, Jul 16, 2020
    Gazelle Punch, Jul 16, 2020
    #847
  8. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Possibly. But he also lost to Jimmy Young. And who knows what he would have done with Holmes. Anyway, we can evaluate what he did do, but what he might have done if history were different is only guesswork.

    Foreman was 25 against Ali while Ali was nearly 33. This is a fight one expects the young guy to win if the young guy is outstanding.
     
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    Jason Thomas, Jul 16, 2020
    #848
  9. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Foreman

    1 Frazier
    2 Norton
    3 Lyle
    4 Moorer
    5 Peralta

    Going through Foreman’s resume 5 spot is weak. I couldn’t put Cooney because he was so inactive at the point they met and was coming off a loss.
    I know controversial wins count but I couldn’t bring myself to include Schulz in the 5 spot.
    so I went with Peralta a excellent local fighter from Argentina that gave George a lot of problems in their first fight.
     
    The Long Count, Jul 16, 2020
    The Long Count, Jul 16, 2020
    #849
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Foreman:

    1. Moorer (given the circumstances)
    2. Frazier
    3. Norton
    4. Lyle
    5. Chuvalo
     
    janitor, Jul 16, 2020
    janitor, Jul 16, 2020
    #850
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Foreman's five:

    1. Frazier. Has one ATG every blown away another in his prime so easily?
    2. Norton. 2 rounds. Foreman was very sharp in this one.
    3. Moorer. Winning the title again at his age was special.
    4. Lyle. A back and forth brawl where both men were hurt and down, Big George came out on top
    5. Chuvalo. A young pre title Foreman proved he can stop a durbale contender early.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    #851
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Sharkey was the better. He had Corbett down and on the run. Sharkey had the style to catch up to and take out swift movers like McCoy and Choysnki. He was doing the same to Corbett, and over the course of 20 rounds, if anyone is slowing down its Corbett who could not hurt Sharkey.

    " Corbett took on rugged contender Tom Sharkey. Corbett had previously drawn with the sailor (Sharkey) and was trying to record a win that would propel him into the heavyweight picture once more.

    In the second round Corbett was dropped by a right hand swing to the jaw by Sharkey. It was the only knockdown of the fight. Sharkey was on his man from the get-go setting a terrific pace, shifting his attack from head to body and back again. Corbett then was forced to fight on a dime with the hard-punching sailor. Corbett managed to get in several punches per round, but none seemed to have any effect on the iron-jawed ex-tar.

    Corbett and Sharkey, prior to the bout, had agreed to break cleanly and not punch on the clinch. This agreement would help Corbett, because clinching was extremely important for "Gentleman Jim," as he would be "out-muscled" by Sharkey if he were to exchange with him too long. In the ninth (according to contemporary accounts) Corbett hit Sharkey low and the latter protested to the referee. There was a lively exchange in which Corbett may have been getting the worst of it. According to Referee Kelly, Corbett's man McVey attempted to climb through the ropes but was blocked by a policeman. Seconds later the same fellow crawled into the ring and Kelly was forced to order the men to their corners, whereupon he declared all bets were off and Corbett was disqualified. Kelly later told reporters that he considered the interference by McVey to have been premeditated, and for this reason he had called off all wagers."
     
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    #852
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Only 5 voted for Walcott''s 5 best wins. Unless you put Johnson as his 2nd best win, he does not make the cut.

    Charles 15 points
    Bivins - 10 points
    Ray - 9 points
    Maxim - 6 points
    Baski ( tie breaker over Johnson ) 3 points.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    Mendoza, Jul 16, 2020
    #853
  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think people just don’t realize they fought.
     
    Gazelle Punch, Jul 16, 2020
    Gazelle Punch, Jul 16, 2020
    #854
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1-----Joe Frazier
    2-----Ken Norton
    3-----Michael Moorer
    4-----Ron Lyle
    5-----Gregorio Peralta

    Just copied and pasted Jason's :coleman:
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 16, 2020
    mattdonnellon, Jul 16, 2020
    #855
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