Best/Greatest Boxer-Punchers?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Oct 11, 2019.


  1. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thnx Rules. Imo the heavies of today are a disgrace to boxing. The division just needs one guy to turn it around again. I have studied a lot of fighters in many decades, and although I haven't watched Fury and Joshua and those guys a lot, I really do think they would be relatively easy to beat.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is why the thread is talking about boxer-punchers William.

    You for some reason are talking about a boxer. George and the rest of us are talking hybrids. This is what the thread is about. A boxer-puncher most certainly has power. He need not have Hearns/Foster/Tyson power but he most certainly is no Whitaker in the department either.
     
  3. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I do not find Liston a hybrid, that is why I specified what a boxer is. Imo, Liston is a 100% slugger. Great jab, sure. Fair stamina sure. Those aren't qualities that fit the boxer alone.
     
  4. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hmmm...well, I see someone like Hearns to be closer to a boxer-puncher than Liston. But Liston certainly could box. I keep things like ring generalship and being able to command a fight's tempo, etc. as important boxing skills. Liston could do both, with or without the jab (though his jab had a lot to do with those).

    I would call the Holmes who beat Shavers I and Norton a boxer. The one who beat Evangelista, Ali, Shavers II, and Ocasio a boxer-puncher.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston is absolutely nothing like a 100% slugger.
     
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tho he didn't mind slugging at times Holmes didn't punch hard enough to ever be called a boxer-puncher.
     
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  7. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    He did sometimes, from the ropes (with counter-uppercuts), similar as Jones, although not so often. But he is a lot more well rounded and not so limited as Frazier/ Brewster, Liston, Foreman (young) or Baer. Especially his defensive skills were proper, with his upper-body movement, until the Bruno fight took he very little.
     
  8. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All respect, but Mike was more well-rounded than Frazier only as far as being able to paralyze with either hand..otherwise, not really. Frazier had a bizarrely underrated defense (watch how many punches he actually slipped against Ali and others), it's just that George did his homework and figured his act out from careful study, just as Evander did Mike in their fights.

    I think you're right when it comes to Foreman being more limited as a young man, but that wouldnt have kept him from pulverizing Mike in his prime. Foreman would have loved Mike's entire approach and eaten him for breakfast imo.

    I also must respectfully disagree the Liston was less well-rounded. Watch him in the Machen fight, or at least the fights that went longer than a couple rounds. Liston knew how to slip very well in fact (in his prime). He also knew how to pace himself if he had to, and was capable of taking the entire play away from his opponents by dint of his jab.

    No offense at all intended, and I could be wrong about any and all of the above.
     
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  10. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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  11. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Tyson was a lot more versaitil and variable, especially had a lot superior defensive skill and punch-arsenal than Frazier (who stopped many punches with his head and was several times knocked down in his peak, against lesser opponents than Foreman) , as well as punch-technique, what was more accurate and texbook. The "Black Marciano" was actual a poor man's version of whom and a clone of Brewster, with weaker chin.

    I didn't argue about who win if Tyson or Foreman, never claimed the first would. But only that he was more technical schooled, but Foreman rather crude and a bit clumpsy. So their match-up is a totally different subject, although the predictions can be different about the outcome (on points wouldn't win Foreman and Tyson had arguable the better chin).

    But Liston had not the movement of Tyson, neither of the head/ upper-body nor footwork. So I think his defence was not as good and also did he barely counter (or throwing punches in bunches). He took at his best more punches to the head then "Iron Mike". Although his straights and jabs were possible better and the body-work could be narrowly equal, although he didn't use as many hooks there, nor punch-connections. He was I suppose more the pot-shooter, who throw more single hands.
     
  12. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You have some interesting points, but I don't think it's arguable Mike had the better chin. Foreman went 12 rounds with Holyfield...Tyson got knocked out by both Holy and Douglas (the latter in particular not exactly a great puncher). Foreman even took a couple of flush shots from Frazier and never tasted the canvas, and neither Holy nor Douglas (much less McBride and Williams) had the power of Frazier.

    Again, no disrespect intended. Maybe I'm wrong.
     
  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Foreman was knocked out by Ali, who had about average power himself (not more than Holyfield likely) and down vs. Lyles, maybe Young too. But Tyson was against Douglas (who is at least physical stronger than Frazier and Tyson, in opposite to Foreman who was always bigger) complettly out of shape and took a lot of punches what finally result as accomulation in the knockout in round 10, but also due to exhausting. And he got headbutted by Holyfield alsmost to death, what was used as third first, just as was he here tired too and it wasn't a real knockout, he was stopped on his feet. But both times was he not at his best.
    He took a lot of punches by Ruddock, who is known as hard puncher and also from Bruno in the first fight, as he was already sluggish there and didn't used his defence, who has also one of the highest knockout-ratios of any world champion in Heavyweight, in each didn't go he down. And when he was one-leged against Williams (after his knee pulled out in the first round), he took a lot of punches too.
    So their chins might be comparable and have no big differnce, maybe around the same level.
     
  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I like the way you're thinking and writing out your ideas. I just can't see Douglas as physically stronger than Frazier and Iron Mike.

    However, I respect your views and the way you present them (you don't typically resort to being condescending and are a good writer with unquestionable knowledge). I respectfully agree to disagree.
     
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  15. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some guy named Thompson Hearns....or maybe it's Thomas Hearns??