Best heavyweight Jim Jeffries could beat?

I think it's unfair to match comedians against professional boxers.

 

Joe Louis, #2 greatest of all time.

 

i will be nice, he would make a fight of the century in the club of the corner fighting chuvalo

 

Jack Johnson's a pretty good musician too, let's not undersell him!

In a boxing sense, Jeffries was a puncher with plenty stamina and durability.

The difference is he was athletic, and had great natural stamina in the later rounds, with a granite chin and iron body. And his tale of the tape is still impressive measurements.

While boxing history is full of puncher types, most of them had an Achilles heel.

He's not a puncher with a glass jaw: Example: Ernie Shavers
He's not a puncher with limited size. Example Rocky Marciano
He's not puncher with stamina issues. Example Geroge Foreman
He's not an apathetic boxer with power. Example Max Baer
He was not a puncher with questionable intangibles: Example Liston

Regardless of what you think of his skills, which were best shown on his lone clear film, a 1901 training sessions he has the following chances.

1 ) Puncher's chance

2 ) Later round chance on stamina if the other guy slows down.

My opinion is a puncher with stamina and a chin is always dangerous, regardless of era.

Under his rule set, in 25 rounds Jeffries can beat anyone. If he was around today, I can see him at 230-235 pounds in shape, with even sharper skills. Usually, those with quick feet and agility as Jeffries had can box, so don't pigeonhole him as a victim of his times in terms of technique and assume he wouldn't be a much better boxer if he was alive today.

 

Great post Mendoza.

 

jefries was a strong guy with stamina. but i wonder where you got the idea about jefries being a hard puncher... he was fighting lhws,very small cruisers (180s pounders) and super mws.... with this type of rivals jimmy young would look julian jackson

 

This might just be your best post ever. Kudos.

 

While I agree with a lot of the above, you're a poster who places a lot of emphasis on size. So how do we explain his getting his nose broken and being troubled for many rounds by guys who were the size of modern day Super Middle weights? How would this have a bearing on his chances against men of later periods who were bigger, faster, more athletic, skilled, etc?

 

Great post :good

What surprised me most about watching Jeffries film, is how athletic he was. Even when he was over the hill, training for Johnson, he could jump rope and hit the speed bag as good as anyone.

And when he was younger, you can watch him sparring with very fast footwork, precise bobbing and weaving, and hard punching.

 

Frank Loiterzo once said that Jeffries might have beaten Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali in the same night, or he might have lost to people like Michael Dokes.

However hard we try to reconstruct him from the available evidence, this statement is essentially true.

I think that Mendoza’s ****ysis is essentially correct.

Jeffries only real weakness was that he was not the finisher that he should have been.

In that sense I wouldn't rule out his chances against anybody.

 

Yes, and in terms of heavyweight champions pre Sonny Liston, many of them would be undersized today. Jeffries ranged from 215 to as high as 240. Today I think he would be 230-235 in shape.

His tape measurements on neck, chest, fist and thigh would be considered good to very good today.

Now to discuss your points. Super middles. Jeffries had an easy time in the first fight with Fitzsimmons, knocking him down 3 times ( I think ) and out cold. He also won the majority of the rounds.

JEFFRIES A KINGPIN

(Los Angeles Daily Times, Sat., June 10, 1899)

By Direct Wire to The Times

CONEY ISLAND SPORTING CLUB (N.Y.), June 9 -- (Exclusive Dispatch) Big Jim
Jeffries of Los Angeles is the champion pugilist of the world. At the Coney
Island Athletic Club tonight he defeated Robert Fitzsimmons in a fast and
vicious contest that went eleven rounds. He fought with the coolness and
precision of a veteran, and at no time was he in danger of meeting with
defeat. It was a fair and square contest, marked by a brilliant display of
science on both sides, and was fairly and squarely won. The young Californian
showed himself a master at every point in the game, and won as he pleased
after he had taken the measure of his opponent.

To those who had seen him before he offered the greatest surprise. He was no
longer a clumsy, awkward boxer, hesitating to lead or to follow an advantage,
but a finished fighter, keen and alert for an opening, and swift to take and
follow an advantage when it came to him. He came to the ring in superb
condition, and the first round that he fought had no apparent effect upon him.
As he stood over the prostrate form of his bleeding and unconscious opponent
he looked fit to go on for another hour. He was punished throughout the fight,
for no man who never before met reverse, without being hit hard and often; but
he stood up to it with a lion-like courage, and never faltered.

He showed an entirely different method of boxing. He crouched very low, with
his left arm extended, and Fitzsimmons seemed lost as to the best method of
finding him. His defense was nearly perfect. He also showed wonderful
improvement in footwork and hitting power. He was as lively as a lightweight
on his feet, and repeatedly ducked the undercutting swings of his opponent. He
has stopped cuffing and chopping. He punches and hooks and swings with the
precison of a finished boxer.

It was a great battle, and the young victor will probably remain the champion
for years to come. He has size, weight and speed, and the comparative ease
with which he defeated Fitz, whom they all feared, will give him wonderful
confidence.


1 ) The gloves they used back then were worse than MMA gloves, they were light and split often producing cuts. It is likely Fitz did something to his gloves in the second match to produce the damage he did.

2 ) It is my observation that a much lighter opponent can outbox a much heavier opponent if they are near the same height. Corbett vs Jeffries 1 was near even as the knockout happened. However as you go up in weight, fighters slow down and often have less stamina. This would actually help Jeffries as anyone he can catch he can beat especially if they slow down.

While some champions were bigger than Jeffries ( Lewis, Bowe, Klitschko ), few were more athletic. Skilled is a point of view. Jeffries was a skilled body puncher and clinch fighter more so than any modern champion today.

I don't think any modern champion was more athletic. While some were faster, not significantly more so than Corbett.

 

really? Jefries weighed 210 against Corbett in 1903, 206 against Fitzsimmons,205 against Sharkey,201 against Goddard, and he just weighed 240 in a single fight and he was a pig at that weight, he was even out of shape against Johnson at 227 and it was his second highest weight.
Jefries was in perfect shape at 210 pounds

 

Jeffries used to sweat himself down to make weight early in his career.

It appears that he weighed 215lbs in the ring when he won the title, even though he registered 206 at the weigh in.

Either way there were no formal weigh ins back then.

A fighter reported their weight and it was take on trust.

This meant that many fighters understated or overstated their weight for tactical reasons.