Best heavyweight Jim Jeffries could beat?

From 1900-1904, Jeffries was 240, 218, 220, 218, 219, and 224. I think the 210 weight you refer to is flukish, IF accurate it was Jeffries training for speed. I'll stand that 220 was his ideal weight and he's 230-235 today. Fighters back then trained down for stamina, which is why you will see very few fat old timers.

In fact, if you average all of those weights and use your cherry picked 210 pounds once, you come out with an average weight of 221 from 1900-1904. Pretty much what I said Foreman&Dempsey

PS: The Goddard way off. Fighters or the press sometimes reported the weight, that does not make it accurate.

 

Depends a bit on the scenario. If the scenario is opponent comes along in Jeffries day, developing in ****ogy (to the opportunities to develop) to how he had developed in his own day, and faced a 1903 Jeffries in a fight of 20 rounds or greater, Jeffries would have had a chance of beating anyone, I think, and shouldn't be considered long odds against anyone.

 

I would like to add that ANY heavyweight who, coming along in Jeffries day, would have gone 2-0 against Fitzsimmons, T. Sharkey and Corbett, would have been doing VERY commendable work.

 

Honestly how can you even say?

It's possible a man can dance rings around him for 12 rounds as Corbett and Fitz did. So against any boxer quick on their feet, he's gonna struggle under the distance.

How handy is he in a straight up brawl between two punchers? Not a clue.

The only thing I'd say with confidence is the man trained for distance, a bit like the Marciano of his day in that it didn't matter how badly he was losing, he'd find a way to win.

An athlete with that mentality, game changing power and a HW build would always be a tough fight for anyone. Whether he has chance to learn and adapt to a modern skillset dictates how successful he'd be imo.

 

I think Jeffries would beat most guys who came to him such as Marciano..Liston..Frazier..Tyson etc....maybe Louis and Dempsey...if Jeffries copied say godoy to a low crouch and force Louis to corner and ropes he wins ..if Dempsey boxes somewhat ..be defensive on inside and have Jeffries tire those huge legs abit Dempsey wins ..maybe...I think guys like Walcott..Tunney etc would decision in 15 rounds......
Say 45 rounds Jeffries might be best ever but even here Jeffries weakness was his slow fret and someone may have out energized him....maybe

 

Impossible to say because no good footage of him exists. I tend to believe he was far better than he is now thought of. I am generally impressed by his balance, skill that I see in his training footage as well as his almost impossible to follow prime filmed fights. I am sure that any hwt taken back to his day fighting under the rules of that time would have a very difficult time lasting the distance with prime Jeffries.

 

Recently I've started digging into Jeffries again, many many years ago I was facinated by him as well and read about any and everything I could get my hands on about the man.

As with all these older fighters it's just so difficult to gage how they'd do vs the others who showed us things on film. It's not obviously the fault of the fighter for the Era he was in, but reading can be misleading as well since many of the things you'll read were written by people also living within said Era.

I'd like to think that the best of each era could atleast be competitive with those from others eras, but one of my best friends a fellow boxing addict for over 30 years like me thinks that's ridiculous. He doesn't do message boards or boxing forums or anything like that so he's not used to debating boxing except with me and other friends of his (ours)
I laid my top 10 on him not long ago after we'd been debating it here.
My top 10 was as follows:

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Foreman
6. Johnson
7. Tyson
8. Marciano
9. Frazier
10. Lewis

His responce was, I've got no problems with that list, you know much more about the old time fighters than me (old time to him is anything before lets say the Ali era he knows all about them but doesn't study them like me.. He said maybe Marciano could be higher. But then the whole point of this post is what he said next.

I see you have Johnson at 6 and I get that but I honestly think Tyson beats him in 30 seconds, those fighters wouldn't be able to fight off guys like Tyson, it was a different sport then vs what it became...

Hmm food for thought.

I disagree, but who knows really...

 

It comes down to this:

We can never ultimately know what would have happened if Johnson fought Tyson.

What we do know is that Johnson achieved a longevity, and depth of resume, that Tyson could only dream of.

Knowns have to carry more weight than hypotheticals!

 

^ This is highly relevant. Even heavyweights back then had an extremely unhealthy approach to diet and hydration -- they believed that they fought better if they dried out (as if they were trying to make weight). Most heavyweights back then fought dehydrated. For no benefit.

Posters on Classic like to talk about how much better a fighter would look today because of steroids and weightlifting, but you really don't need to go that far. Transplant Corbett or Jeffries to 2016, and the first thing you could give them to improve their performance would be a water bottle.

 

We also know that Tyson's resume against 200-lb+ opponents is far, far more impressive than Johnson & Jeffries'. We also know that Tyson threw blistering, powerful combinations that would have been unlike anything Johnson or Jeffries would have seen before.

 

Excellent post!

 

Hah!

Please to list that depth of resume that Johnson attained.

Beating the modern equivalent of a junior middleweight Sam Langford is in there, for sure.

And I can't wait for you to equate the shell of Jeffries with the Holmes who would still go on to get a title shot years later. That will be a real whizbanger.

 

Tommy Morrison

 

I would say a terrific post.

 

His early training footage is incredible. He was super fast for a man his weight. Great footwork. He has 0 balance issues. He could easily bob and weave punches with his hands down. very quick, and accurate with counters.

The man could box.