Best Heavyweight Resume Ever ?

I disagree. I watched the fight without sound and can't see Valuev win.

Spectators booed the decision badly.

Can you give me a link about ringside scores?

From what I remember, Roy Jones and Al Bershtein both scored it like 118-110 or 119-109.

Also, it was older version of Holyfield that 4 years ago lost in one-sided fight to Larry Donald.

Haye did less except 12 rd and still won, though I scored it only 115-113 for Haye.

 

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Holyfield clearly beat Valuev in my opinion.

 

That was compared to Lewis. At first I thought the thread was a comparison between those two, but the I edited.

Anyhow, Louis and Ali were about the same here. Think Ali had just a couple on Louis when I've seen them counted (by Hhascup and Klompton, I think), but Louis has more title defenses, so it about evens out.

 

It was a home crowd for Valuev, was it not? The discrepancies between scoring from ringside and from in front of the tv seems to occur mostly when one has the crowd behind him. And he usually gets the ringsiders votes.

 

That fight looked like it was staged, frankly. Seemed like there was a gentlemen's agreement not to do much either way and Valuev would pick up the decision.

 

Ali beat a lot of guys who "had a chance" when he fought them, here's most of them-

Doug Jones W10- he had dropped tough decisions to Eddie Machen, Harold Johnson, and Zora Folley, but he had come back with KO wins over Bob Foster and Zora Folley. A live opponent for the up and coming Clay. Some felt Jones deserved the win vs. Clay in 1963.

Sonny Liston (Hall of Famer) KO6 and KO1- reighning HW Champ in their first fight and big favorite. Many felt the first fight was a fluke so Liston was definately seen as a live opponent in the rematch.

Floy Patterson (Hall of Famer) KO12 and KO7- former 2x HW Champ and still a very good fighter, even in their rematch he was still a good fighter
Zora Folley

Cleveland Williams KO3- he was kicking as much ass as he ever had around the time he faced Ali. Yeah, I know about his getting shot. He had gone 20-1-1 (14) in his last 22 fights including a win over Ernie Terrell KO7, a draw with Eddie Machen, and a SD loss to Eddie Machen. He had also decisioned Billy Daniels x2 and Wayne Bethea. He stopped Alex Miteff. He was tall, big, strong, powerful, and athletic. Considering Ali totally dominated him and stopped him in the 3rd round, I say good win. Overall, I think he is overrated but it was a good win because of how he won.

Ernie Terrell W15- he had picked up the WBA belt that had been stripped from Ali. It was an important fight. Terrell was taller than Ali with a longer reach. He was durable. He had wins over Cleveland Williams, Folley, Bob Foster KO7, Machen, Chuvalo, and Doug Jones.

Zora Folley KO7- he was a very good boxer and had gone 11-0-1 (5) in his last 12 including wins over Billy Daniels, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Bob Foster, and Henry Clark. He drew with Karl Mildenberger. He also had a win a draw and a win vs. Eddie Machen earlier in his career.

Jerry Quarry KO3 and KO7- Quarry had won 4 in a row, 3 by KO including KO6 Mac Foster. He had given Frazier a tough fight prior to getting stopped in the 7th round of their first fight. Ali had not fought in 3 1/2 years and dominated Quarry until the stoppage in the 3rd round. Very good win.

Oscar Bonavena KO15- he had given Frazier two tough fights, he even dropped him twice in their first bout. Some felt he won that fight. He beat and drew with Peralta, beat Chuvalo, lost a SD to Frazier, lost a close decision to Ellis, beat Folley, beat Leotis Martin, and lost a tough decision to Frazier in their rematch. Ali dropped Bonavena 3 times in the last round.

Joe Bugner W12 and W15- he was big, tall, strong, and had an awkward style. He had beat London KO5, Wepner KO3, Cooper, Blin W15 and KO8, and Tony Doyle KO8. He went on to lose a decision to Frazier, a SD to Lyle, and another decision to Ali. He also beat Mac Foster, Jose Garcia KO2, Ellis, Tillis, Bey, Page, and Bonecrusher Smith KO1.

Joe Frazier (Hall of Famer) 2 out of 3 (W12 and KO14), Ken Norton (Hall of Famer) 2 out of 3, George Foreman (Hall of Famer) KO8, Lyle KO11, Young, and Shavers.

He beat these Lineal HW Champs-

Patterson x2, Liston x2, Frazier 2 out of 3, Foreman, and L. Spinks 1 out of 2. 8-2 (6) vs. these men.

He also beat world title holders Ernie Terrell, Jimmy Ellis KO12, Ken Norton 2 out of 3. 4-1 (1) vs. these men. 12-3 (7) vs. these 8 men. Some felt he lost another to Norton. Some felt he lost to Young. He had a tough time with Shavers but I thought he did enough for the win. He did go on to lose to Holmes and Berbick.

 

In my experience it's the reflexes and reaction times that make the biggest difference.

 

That's acting like a fan-boy, not having a higher opinion. It's like with those books on boxers where you see a lot of writers put as much much praise of the fighter and omit whatever criticism there was of them by contemporary journalists. Totally unbalanced view of the fighters.
And if you think that I have low opinion about old timers, think again.

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I'm 100% sure if it were a debate of a modern fighter, your approach would be different. Say, the Judah-Mayweather knockdown, which wasn't registered by the referee, you'd certainly use it to belittle Floyd. That's the difference between us. I don't care who it was, modern fighter or old-timer, I treat them the same.

Where did you see me calling Raham a very good fighter? Why even bring him into this discussion?

Only if you totally ignore the circumstances of the Holyfield bout. It was obvious you would do, since we are talking about a modern boxer, not about an old-timer, where you would have put together a hundred reasons why Moorer wasn't the best hw and why he didn't deserve a win.

 

Still spoutin' the same ol' schtick seven years on, Senya ?

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=19085&highlight=senya&page=3

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=19085&highlight=argumentation&page=5


Older, but no wiser.

:-(

 

I'm consistent and stating explicitely what I mean, as compared to those old and current opponents who are trying to prove different things than what I said. Heavyweights' resumes are usually weak compared to other weight divisions, what's so difficult to understand here, I don't know. You don't need to be wise to understand that, just a little bit of common sense and some logic, and lack of bias.

 

:rofl

I believe it is amply evident from the discussion you engaged in seven years ago, and that I have linked above, as well as your musings in this thread, that you're somewhat short of common sense and logic, and have more than a modicum of bias.