Best heavyweight to never challenge for a world title since 1950

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Mar 28, 2020.



  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I’ll cut it off in 1950 because obviously if we go all-time the conversation would (rightfully) revolve around a few key African-American figures who were frozen out in the ‘color line’ days, and rightfully so.

    There have been many discussions about the best heavies to never WIN a world title, but most, if not all, of the frequently-mentioned at least had a shot.

    But what about those who didn’t? Who flew close enough to the flame but never felt its heat?
     
  2. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    All of them had loses against the "A" side, but I suspect that if these three had the same backing and training as "A" side fighters they would have all got title shots. Roy Williams (Philly), Jeff Merritt (Miami,NYC), and Larry Middleton (Baltimore) in the 70s. They were all tall, and and usually gave the "A" side a tough fight. I have seen Williams on video against Holmes and Shavers, and he looked well schooled. He lost to Merritt and Middleton. I suspect that all 3 were good fighters, better than many who got title shots.

    Between them they had wins over Bugner, Young, Terrell, Stander, and others and close loses to "A" side fighters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  3. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Interesting topic. I've got a lot of sets of ratings (magazines and organizations) collected in a document. I looked for guys who never got a title shot who'd been ranked at the top or close to it for at least a few months. I'm assuming we're not just sticking to the lineal title, but including the NBA, WBA, WBC, NYSAC, IBF, etc. Interestingly, there aren't too many guys who were highly ranked who didn't get some sort of a title shot at one time or another. By and large, top-rated guys get their shot somewhere along the way. Here's who didn't:

    Nino Valdes
    Bob Baker
    Thad Spencer
    Leotis Martin
    Mac Foster
    Razor Ruddock
    Ike Ibeabuchi

    Also interestingly, these guys all got themselves eliminated from consideration somehow; losing a title eliminator, losing in a title tournament, suffering a career-ending injury (Martin), or landing in prison (Ibeabuchi).

    Some guys only got shots at organizational, rather than lineal, titles - for example Eddie Machen, Doug Jones, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, and a whole host of guys in the post-Ali alphabet organization era.

    Other guys got their shots too late, that is they were ranked #1 but didn't get their shot until years later - i.e. Henry Cooper, Zora Folley, Eddie Machen.

    So, to try to tackle the OP's question, I'd rank these guys as follows:

    1. Ibeabucchi
    2. Baker
    3. Valdes
    4. Ruddock
    5. Martin
    6. Spencer
    7. Foster
     
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  4. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Williams lost to Richard Dunn, Dunn was KO'd in 11 of his 12 losses - I never really thought much of him but he was probably better than the 14 fight David Bey who Holmes defended against and other Holmes opponents as Champ

    Merritt beat a old Terrell and a post Frazier sliding Stander who was never really there (who had the KO early of a 12-1 Shavers ( Earnie Gassed & was stopped) Merritt lost an early fight to Johnny Gause by KO but had a decent run against C rated guys but did beat young 9-0 Roy Williams - he beat Roger Russel who was in the middle of a one win 18 fight losing streak but was KO'd by Henry Clark and 5-0-2 Stan Ward, his final record was 22-3-1

    Larry Middleton was the best of the 3, he beat Bugner and Danny McAlinden and Bob Stallings 16-22-( who would beat Earnie Shavers 2 years later) but lost to Quarry shortly after and then Lyle X2 Oscar Bonavena and Howard Smith then Duane Bobick, Scott LeDoux and Norton
    back in those days beating British heavyweights was pretty much expected - times have changed. Middleton was competitive and may have beaten some of Holmes and others title challengers but mostly lost moving up in class
     
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  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ike, Baker and Valdez were the first three I thought of on this subject (in that order)
     
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  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Number one is Harold Johnson and I don’t think anyone post 1950 comes close.
    With wins over
    Charles
    Moore
    Nino
    Satterfield
    Marshal
    Slade
    Doc williams
    Bivins
    Hall
    Clarence Henry
    He earned his shot and I’m surprised never got one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  7. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    Sometimes what you see in boxing isn't the whole truth. I know Williams lost to Dunn, but what were the circumstances? Was Williams training at the time? How long did Williams have to prepare for the fight? Did he fly to England one day and fight when he got there? There are a lot of variables, and those are just "legal" reasons that a man who gave Larry Holmes and Earnie Shavers major problems could have lost to Dunn.

    A pro might be sitting on his couch wondering how he is going to pay his bills and get a phone call on Wednesday offering a fight on Friday or Saturday for good money. Many times he'll take the fight and for people who don't know what happens in boxing, they'll think two equally prepared fighters fought and the best one won. I don't know what happened with Dunn and Williams, but if Williams had a training camp, can't see him losing to Dunn. I give much more credence to what I see on video than I give to results that are posted on Boxrec.

    Middleton may or may not be the best of the group, he had Mack Lewis training him and he might have been more prepared more often than Williams and Merritt. Fighters who compete without major backing are hard to predict.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/11/mack-lewis-1918-2010.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great research, great analysis, great post!
     
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  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We may have a winner here!
     
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